220D no sign of life, help! - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

junqueyardjim · #16 06-26-2011, 09:38 PM

Well the Red one should stop and the Green one should go, sounds like yours have that mixed up. If the red one runs, I certainly would use that one. The green one has got the different IP installed and you don't know where to go next on that. Do you have any history on it. Did you get the timing exactly right when you installed it. Maybe someone mess with that one before you ever saw it. That is why you have to stay with what you had on it when it last ran. IP's just don't go "blink" in the night. Could you tell us how you set the IP for this installation? Now you think the green one "might need" rings. It probably does and they are harder to install then the IP so don't do it. What I think you should do is follow one of the many threads on this forum and set the pump according to the drip timing method. I think Diesel Giant has the whole procedure down in his pages. You pulled the pump and if your timing is off by a tooth or two, you never will get it to run. So number one check the timing. Number two check the valves. Number three would be (if you can ) re-install old IP. Only do this if you know exactly where or what the cam and crank position were when you pulled the IP and if you know that the drive gear on your IP has not been turned since the IP was removed. If you don't remember the setting, then you are just as well off staying with the IP you have installed. Could you tell us how you set the IP for this installation?

kerry · #17 06-26-2011, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slow-Poke-220D

I don't have the tools to do a compression check (I have them for my little Sunbeam Alpine but not for the 220D),

Andy

Harbor Freight sells an inexpensive diesel compression tester.

Codifex Maximus · #18 06-26-2011, 10:06 PM

Get back to basics.

You need three things for a fire:
fuel, oxidizer and catalyst.

In a diesel engine, that's diesel fuel, air and compression/glow plugs.

You must have fuel being injected and at the proper time.
You must have a good flow of air into the manifold.
You must have good compression to squeeze the air charge hot enough to cause it to fire and the glow plugs to raise the temp until combustion heat can continue it.

Improper injection timing can prevent the engine from running at all and can also cause damage. Poor injectors can cause problems due to poor spray patterns. Clogged prechambers are also a common problem.
Gunk in the intake manifold can impede airflow.
Improper valve adjustment can play havoc with compression.

What I'd do:
Check the compression on each cylinder using a Harbor Freight diesel compression tool. Get a MightVac while you're there.
While doing the compression tests, I'd inspect the injectors and the glow plugs. If removal of injectors, use new crush washers are necessary. Verify glow plugs actually glow red (careful of burns).
If compression is good - typically 300ish or better depending on model of engine, then install the injectors on the injection lines but not into the block. Turn it over and see if diesel is sprayed from each injector. It might be a good idea to have the glow plugs disconnected at this time.
Diesel sprays? Good. Check the prechambers for gunk and clean/replace as necessary.

Hopefully, you have not got the timing off but it is a real probability given the fact that you say you get smoke out of the intake rather than the exhaust pipe. Check it.

Slow-Poke-220D · #19 06-27-2011, 05:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Codifex Maximus

Get back to basics.

You need three things for a fire:
fuel, oxidizer and catalyst.

In a diesel engine, that's diesel fuel, air and compression/glow plugs.

You must have fuel being injected and at the proper time.
You must have a good flow of air into the manifold.
You must have good compression to squeeze the air charge hot enough to cause it to fire and the glow plugs to raise the temp until combustion heat can continue it.

Improper injection timing can prevent the engine from running at all and can also cause damage.

Hopefully, you have not got the timing off but it is a real probability given the fact that you say you get smoke out of the intake rather than the exhaust pipe. Check it.

I am 99% sure that my fuel pump timing is off, I may be 180 degs off. I can only go on what I was told about the car. It was running and then straight out quit.

When I pulled the original fuel pump I turned the crankshaft to 45deg BTDC for #1 piston on its compression stroke. I pulled the fuel pump, it was clean and its manual prime pump worked well. When installing the new pump I assumed it was ready to fire for #1 piston (never assume). Assuming was a bad thing. So, tell me how do I set the fuel pump so that I know it is ready to fire on the #1 piston? I could put the original fuel pump back in but then again I am 99% sure that it is not timed correctly.

Do I use the drip tube method to time the fuel pump?

I will make sure my valves are set, I will turn the crankshaft back to 45 deg BTDC at the #1 piston compression stroke, pull the fuel pump and see if I can time it. I think I need to pull the fuel pump as I think I am 180 degs out. Please confirm and inform me the best way to time the pump. Can I do this on a bench?

Regards,
Andy

leathermang · #20 06-27-2011, 10:08 AM

"Do I use the drip tube method to time the fuel pump?"
Yes, that , unless you have expensive equipment that fits your car, IS the specified FSM method to set your IP timing.. It has been successful Billions of times partly because it is an end test which compensate for certain wear in the system...
Before you go to the trouble though..
Why don't you totally describe every thing about how you are planning on doing it... perhaps we can make sure you do not have to do it again.. like how are you going to provide a steady fuel pressure for this test ?

Stretch · #21 06-27-2011, 11:17 AM

There's a DIY here

http://www.peachparts.com/Wikka/OM615OM616InjPumpTiming

Slow-Poke-220D · #22 06-27-2011, 09:30 PM

I can only assume that the past owner was messing with the IP timing. I guess I have just taken things over the edge. Anyway, I will try and do what I can to get her back up an running.

Thanks for the great information guys. This is a great forum with a pile of information and all kinds of action. I have been looking for information on other sites and this one has them all beat.

Andy

piccolovic · #23 06-28-2011, 01:24 AM

Take a spare injector, and braise it as a fitting for your compression tester. Works wonderful. If you don't have one lying around, get one from the junkyard. Before you assume your rings are shot, do the valve adjustment, then the compression test.

Stretch · #24 06-28-2011, 03:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piccolovic

Take a spare injector, and braise it as a fitting for your compression tester. Works wonderful. If you don't have one lying around, get one from the junkyard. Before you assume your rings are shot, do the valve adjustment, then the compression test.

Nice - but you could just use the adapter that comes in the box and fit a compression tester to a glow plug hole. You then don't need to replace the sealing ring beneath the injector (which should be treated as a one time fit part).

piccolovic · #25 06-28-2011, 12:34 PM

Well, I was of the understanding that he didn't have the adaptor. When I did my 240D, I was replacing/rebuilding all the injectors, and also had a junkyard set, that were all tested by pop tester. The bad one was used for braising as an adaptor. This was also suggested by the 800 Mercedes help line when we called for the specs on the valve settings. So, after the valves were checked/adjusted, and the valve cover was put back on, we tested the compression. Went very smoothly, with the first cylinder showing about an 8% lower compression than the other cylinders. I also had the car on a rack and changed all fluids from bumber to bumper. Replaced all the gear oils, engine oil, filters, and drained the rusty water from the cooling system and replaced it with antifreeze/coolant. Got rid of all the fuel leaks by rebuilding/tightening the injectors on a vice and replacing the return lines, and having the alignment checked. Then I proceeded to drive the car for three years in Montana, doing nothing more than oil and filter changes until I sold it to Pierre Hedary upon arrival in Florida. Ugly (aptly named the "Pumpkin" due to it's color), but great car, all manual everything, including sunroof, but no A/C which is absolutely necessary for this old spoiled lady in Florida!!!!

Would love to trade my '83 300D (aptly named the Avacado for it's metallic paint color) for a 240D with manual transmission in as good a shape mechanically as mine is. I miss the stick shift as well as the fuel mileage.

Stretch · #26 06-28-2011, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piccolovic

...

Would love to trade my '83 300D (aptly named the Avacado for it's metallic paint color) for a 240D with manual transmission in as good a shape mechanically as mine is. I miss the stick shift as well as the fuel mileage.

Is there a great difference in fuel consumption between an automatic and a manual transmission? People make lots of claims - some say they do about 14 km per litre (about 33 mpg US) with a stick shift. I got about 10 km per litre in my W123 300D before I took it to bits (almost 24 mpg US)... what's been your experience?

piccolovic · #27 06-28-2011, 02:10 PM

My 300D with auto tranny gets 26 mpg on the highway.

My '76 240D with 4 spd got 33 mpg in high altitude in Montana, and according to Peter Hedary, is getting 36 mpg in Miami area (sea level) since he tuned up and replaced parts on it after he bought it. My 190D with 5-spd (sniff, sniff . . .crashed) got 37-40 mpg highway, depending on tire width.

I don't know how the mileage would fare with an auto tranny, just would get suicidal waiting to get off the stoplights/signs with an auto tranny (without a turbo) within 2 weeks. At least that's how I felt about my cousin's 190D auto trans! I don't know how the 300D five-cylinder engine would fare on mileage with a manual tranny. Guess you'd have to ask the folks who made the changeovers with the 240D 4-spd trannies.