Kit to allow use of 5 speed W124 manual gearboxes in a W123 - Page 4 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

vstech · #46 08-31-2011, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by panZZer

The astro van t5 very rare, me have a cople, parts guy at one of the oldest dealerships in the area stated repeatedly the did not exist, after I told him I just pulled two out of the mini vans, just as hard to find is that bellhousing-with the ford gearbox bolt pattern.

... speaking of rare Astro options...
I remember when I bought my 87 astro, there was a 4.8L Diesel option...
ANYBODY ever seen one of those?

panZZer · #47 08-31-2011, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dropnosky

hahha

What a familiar argument. Im sorry, but the next parts guy who knows as much as an enthusiast who isnt an enthusiast himself will surprise me.

I can't believe you found two, lucky dog! I had to coax mine out of a PITA guy in the midwest, and all said and done, its completely blown. Did you rebuild any of yours? have any rebuild kit part numbers or anything?

The first --I left the bell like a dumbass-the place was closing for the day, when I came back--yup van was sqwushed. Theres a t5 post in the hamb that states the ratios on the astro box, and poke around on the net -Rare t5 parts-- there is a guy in ohio-indiana? thats got what u need, my stuff, since im such a lucky dude

will work out beautiffuly and not need anything. the astro is a direct fit in the early camaro without butching the shifter hole, I believe, i chunked one of the offset hoaky shifters, one I saved!--im scouting astros wit dead trannys in them now, for a backup.

JB3 · #48 08-31-2011, 04:40 PM

so check this out-

here we have the chevy astro 5-speed next to a 115 iron 4-speed. Ive thrown the MB shifter in there with the shift rods to show just how the location of the shifter itself is the big issue with just firing any RWD 5-speed out of dozens of vehicles in one of these MBs

Super inaccurate measurements, but look how the MB shifter is around a foot behind the actual box, and the chevy transmission shifter is actual about 5 inches forward of it. (they are both at the same line in front on the table) In this configuration, if you put the basic chevy box in an MB car, the shifter would be in your ashtray, or climate control

You can see from this side how the chevy 5-speed shifter handle is about 10 inches over to the driverside of the tranny through the astro-specific whoseawhatsit piece-

HOWEVER, here is my favorite pic- If you rotate the shifter extension on the chevy box, it puts the handle in almost the right place. There is no doubt in my mind that the correct attachment is available for some application that moves the shifter to the rear over the tailcone, or is customizable, making this type of chevy 5-speed that is common for camaros or something like it a possibility in an MB body.

The trick is finding just the right old domestic or asian car that moves the shifter back in some way right over the end of the tailcone. I know from some other threads if you are buying a rebuild T5, you can buy pretty much any kind of extension you want, in multiple lenghts, but thats big money.

panZZer · #49 08-31-2011, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dropnosky

so check this out-

here we have the chevy astro 5-speed next to a 115 iron 4-speed. Ive thrown the MB shifter in there with the shift rods to show just how the location of the shifter itself is the big issue with just firing any RWD 5-speed out of dozens of vehicles in one of these MBs

Super inaccurate measurements, but look how the MB shifter is around a foot behind the actual box, and the chevy transmission shifter is actual about 5 inches forward of it. (they are both at the same line in front on the table) In this configuration, if you put the basic chevy box in an MB car, the shifter would be in your ashtray, or climate control

You can see from this side how the chevy 5-speed shifter handle is about 10 inches over to the driverside of the tranny through the astro-specific whoseawhatsit piece-

HOWEVER, here is my favorite pic- If you rotate the shifter extension on the chevy box, it puts the handle in almost the right place. There is no doubt in my mind that the correct attachment is available for some application that moves the shifter to the rear over the tailcone, or is customizable, making this type of chevy 5-speed that is common for camaros or something like it a possibility in an MB body.

The trick is finding just the right old domestic or asian car that moves the shifter back in some way right over the end of the tailcone. I know from some other threads if you are buying a rebuild T5, you can buy pretty much any kind of extension you want, in multiple lenghts, but thats big money.

When you get an early camaro to put your rebuilt unit into -dont chunk the hoaky offset shifter, sell it to me for $10 bucks

and the stock slave cyl on the firewall operating another slave bolted to that casting jutting out from the DS of the bell--axe all that and get a hydro TOB out of speedway, jegs, etc. saw off the piece sticking out off the bell to use it in something else-- no way its needed in anything except an astro-and a 1998-up? camaro also has a Hydro bearing--but the front camaro bearing retainer would have to be used.

JB3 · #50 08-31-2011, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by panZZer

When you get an early camaro to put your rebuilt unit into -dont chunk the hoaky offset shifter, sell it to me for $10 bucks

and the stock slave cyl on the firewall operating another slave bolted to that casting jutting out from the DS of the bell--axe all that and get a hydro TOB out of speedway, jegs, etc. saw off the piece sticking out off the bell to use it in something else-- no way its needed in anything except an astro-and a 1998-up? camaro also has a Hydro bearing--but the front camaro bearing retainer would have to be used.

Camaro? my intention over the next 100-200 years is to put this unit in my astro bolted up to my OM616 with an adapted turbo.

End goal is a 4cyl turbo diesel 5-speed delivery/work van. I have not started a thread on PP about this plan because I have noticed a tendency in myself to start threads about topics I find interesting, then lose steam or get distracted with no completion in sight.

panZZer · #51 08-31-2011, 05:41 PM

There guys on the asto van forum that just used a s 10 t5 and bought an aftermarket shifter--stubb type and welded their own "swag" offset shifter to bolt to it since the official astro t5 is pretty much unobtanium

JB3 · #52 08-31-2011, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by panZZer

There guys on the asto van forum that just used a s 10 t5 and bought an aftermarket shifter--stubb type and welded their own "swag" offset shifter to bolt to it since the officiat astro t5 is pretty much unobtalium

Interesting, so theoretically, the exact same solution could be used to make an s-10 T5 fit in a mercedes properly? Using an aftermarket shifter, then setting it up as offset, but stepping it back 10 inches or something?

Any pics of how they did this?

SirNik84 · #53 08-31-2011, 06:52 PM

This is just me thinking out loud. I've always thought the Toyota transmission might be the route to go if you were to try and put a non MB transmission in the car.

The reasons I've thought this would work is because I've seen adapter plates for mounting the 617 to the Toyota trans. But the bell housing is also removable, as is the bell housing on the iron box MB 4 speeds. I've seen Toyota transmission adapted to other bell housings. meaning there are a few options to make the adaptation to the MB engine.

Also the transmission is long, and the shifter is at the very end of the transmission.

Plus Toyota used these transmissions in everything, from trucks to Supras, so they made adapters to relocated the shifter based on the application.

I know I've seen threads about these transmissions getting mated to MB diesels going into Toyota trucks. Has anyone ever thought of putting the Toyota transmission into the MB car?

panZZer · #54 08-31-2011, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dropnosky

Interesting, so theoretically, the exact same solution could be used to make an s-10 T5 fit in a mercedes properly? Using an aftermarket shifter, then setting it up as offset, but stepping it back 10 inches or something?

Any pics of how they did this?

i looked but could not find the pics,, basically something like this--any thing could be made--nothing is limited by imagination--sideways-rearward/foreward...
http://www.streetrodderweb.com/tech/0602sr_six_speed_transmission/photo_06.html

JB3 · #55 08-31-2011, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirNik84

This is just me thinking out loud. I've always thought the Toyota transmission might be the route to go if you were to try and put a non MB transmission in the car.

The reasons I've thought this would work is because I've seen adapter plates for mounting the 617 to the Toyota trans. But the bell housing is also removable, as is the bell housing on the iron box MB 4 speeds. I've seen Toyota transmission adapted to other bell housings. meaning there are a few options to make the adaptation to the MB engine.

Also the transmission is long, and the shifter is at the very end of the transmission.

Plus Toyota used these transmissions in everything, from trucks to Supras, so they made adapters to relocated the shifter based on the application.

I know I've seen threads about these transmissions getting mated to MB diesels going into Toyota trucks. Has anyone ever thought of putting the Toyota transmission into the MB car?

oohhhhh, that looks almost perfect, we need to compare it to the MB boxes, im sure someone on the forum has one of the transmissions kicking around

Plus it looks like the starter bump is in exactly the right place!

Now you have me keeping my eye open for a toyota transmission of that vintage

SirNik84 · #56 08-31-2011, 07:27 PM

Here is the wiki on the W series Toyota transmissions with the gear ratios listed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_W_transmission

More thinking out loud.

I have a friend who is pretty deep into the Toyota 4x4 community here in CA. His brother owns a shop that builds trucks and crawlers, and he's worked for machine shop build transfer case gear sets. If we (the Mercedes community) were able to work the kinks out and we became a market for an adapter plate, I bet my friend could put me in contact with a machine shop that would be interested in making the plates. I'd think with 2 markets, Mercedes people wanting the transmission, and Toyota people wanting the engines, there would be enough of a market that this would pay off.

Orv · #57 08-31-2011, 07:59 PM

Just spitballing here, but have you ever looked at a Volvo 240 manual transmission? Okay, it doesn't meet the criteria of being US or Asian, but there are a *lot* of them out there. Shift lever is more or less over the tailcone, as I recall. The two common flavors in gas Volvos are the M46 4-speed with a Laycock electrically-actuated overdrive unit in the tailcone to give a 5th gear, and the M47 5-speed. The M46 is the more robust of the two; you will occasionally see overdrive units that need new clutches, but they rarely actually break unless abused. The M47 tends to burn out 5th gear; rumor has it Volvo put the fill plug too low in the case, starving 5th gear for oil.