Looking at a WVO conversion - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

hertfordnc · #1 09-18-2012, 11:55 PM

Again, Mercedes diesels are rare in my area so i look at everyone that comes up,

Like this one:

1983 mercedes 300TD

Hope to see it tomorrow.

It seems that WVO conversion tends to lower the value, is that true?

Assuming you believe WVO can be done correctly, what are signs that it has not been?

thanks

Zacharias · #2 09-19-2012, 12:11 AM

The only reason you will want to look at this car is if:

(a) you have an interest in continuing to run it on WVO or straight (new) vegoil,
(b) you want/need a wagon, or
(c) both of the above.

If you have no interest in alternate fuel technologies, there is no real reason to bother with it. Even if no more Mercedes come up for sale in the next 6 months in your area.

The wagon has a self-leveling (SLS) rear suspension that is more complicated and costly to maintain than that on the sedans. Most of the components are expensive. If you have no reason for a wagon, there is probably no imperative to have the extra headaches.

As always there is no way to comment about price without an assessment of the car's condition. When it comes to old Mercedes, the same model might sell for $1200 and $4200... and the $4200 car might be a better buy overall.

Most people feel that the conversion cars are worth less than others. For those of us who aren't anti-WVO, that depends on how competently the conversion was done and how effectively the owner has prepared the WVO (dewatering and filtering).

If you want more info on WVO issues, you would be best to post a question in the Alernative Fuels subforum as most folks on the main diesel list tend to be anti-WVO.

sixto · #3 09-19-2012, 01:09 AM

There's a small population to whom a converted car is worth more.

Sixto
87 300D

hertfordnc · #4 09-19-2012, 08:03 AM

Thanks. I should have made clear that I DO have some interest in WVO/bio diesel so the conversion does interest me.

I know about the issues with wagons and and I would be interested in this car anyway.

My question is specifically about assessing whether or not the WVO conversion was done correctly and if not, what harm has been done.

vstech · #5 09-19-2012, 08:13 AM

to know about the conversion, you'd also have to know about the preparation the driver did to the oil.
the most damage done from WVO is from water flowing through the IP. but aside from that, you have to know it's a 2 tank system, and the system NEVER ran on WVO before the "fuel" reached 160

Zacharias · #6 09-19-2012, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hertfordnc

My question is specifically about assessing whether or not the WVO conversion was done correctly and if not, what harm has been done.

Okay my slightly negative tone in the first reply was based on the fact that jumping into a wvo car wouldn't be a great idea for the average first-time diesel owner, but as you are interested in the technology, great....

Best to start by contacting the seller and confirming that it is a GreaseCar KIT installed (he says 'grease car' in the ad but that is sometimes used as a slang for any wvo car). Also that it's an actual complete kit and not just a couple of items someone bought from that company.

A proper kit can cost $900 to $1300 for the hardware alone and some people cut corners.

You need to see:

- a heated wvo tank
- a two tank system, with switchover valves controlled from switches inside the car (car must have been started and run till warm on diesel, then also run for 30 secs to a minute or more before shutdown on diesel as well)
- additional heat before the injection pump, either electric or via a coolant heat exchanger
- preferably, 12v heater wraps around the steel injector lines
- no mysterious behaviours in the car, such as excess smoke, lumpy idle, hard to start, down on power, etc.
- absolute ideal is that the guy does periodic motor oil analysis to monitor the engine's health, but that's really a hard core wvo runner, not that common

As vstech said, the care the guy takes in preparing the wvo is key. As him how he filters it. He should be able to tell you what micron value he filters to, and how he dewaters. If you get a vague answer, walk away.

Improper prep, or use of wvo in an improperly converted car = gradual damage to the motor and the injection pump over time. Imagine trying to suck lukewarm bacon grease through a soft drink straw... that is what is happening to the pump and injectors on a car running wvo too cool. The wvo has to be at 160 degrees to match the viscosity of diesel and burn properly. To find out more about damage from improper wvo use, I suggest you google "ring polymerization".

There is lots of discussion in various places on the Internet on all this stuff, including entire forums dedicated to the technology.

You will want to have a compression test done prior to purchase. An inspection is 2x important on a wvo conversion.

Remember, wvo is not 'free' fuel. The equipment costs, and the prep of the wvo (including finding a good supply of suitable wvo in your area, and collecting it) takes time and money as well.

Simpler=Better · #7 09-19-2012, 10:16 AM

Do you have a day job? A house to maintain? Kids? Then you definitely won't have time to run around picking up waste oil and filtering it.

That aside, these guys hit the nail on the head-if it's a 2 tank system and has been eating well filtered/dewatered fuel, go for it.

Zacharias · #8 09-19-2012, 12:51 PM

Another consideration is the availability of decent WVO in your area. Chain restaurants increasingly have disposal contracts and their waste storage units are locked.

Not all waste oil from food establishments is created equal. Chinese is considered problematic as it usually has a high salt content and salt is a killer. A french-fryer wagon is ideal. Restaurants that reuse their cooking oil to death won't work either.

Aside from the car you need to assess if there is a local source.

ah-kay · #9 09-19-2012, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zacharias

Not all waste oil from food establishments is created equal. Chinese is considered problematic as it usually has a high salt content and salt is a killer. A french-fryer wagon is ideal. Restaurants that reuse their cooking oil to death won't work either.

Really?? Engine can taste salt. It likes sugar? When oil is reused and reused again then it is not oil? The engine don't like it and spit it out? No wonder there is so much dis-information around.

I would suggest OP goes for the WVO wagon. If it was done right then there is nothing to be afraid of. But, you need to be prepared to spend time, money and wrenching effort as there is NO free lunch in this world.

Zacharias · #10 09-19-2012, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ah-kay

Really?? Engine can taste salt. It likes sugar? When oil is reused and reused again then it is not oil? The engine don't like it and spit it out? No wonder there is so much dis-information around.

Yes, apparently so:

Fuel considerations - Plantoil/diesel conversion basics

ah-kay · #11 09-19-2012, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zacharias

Yes, apparently so:

Fuel considerations - Plantoil/diesel conversion basics

Moderator: may be time to move this thread to the other forum....

Well, I thought it is done by a research institution. It was a comment written by an average Joe in the street. I would take it with a BIG grain of salt.

I do not want to get into any argument with the merit of using WVO. But WVO by nature is trash so you have to assume it has all kind of craps in there. However, reuse, reuse again oil or salt content would not denigrate it to be unusable. Water content is a killer but it can be removed easily with a diesel water separator.

JB3 · #12 09-19-2012, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zacharias

Yes, apparently so:

Fuel considerations - Plantoil/diesel conversion basics

Moderator: may be time to move this thread to the other forum....

the problem with links like that is literally anyone can go on a forum and post "information" of that nature.

the whole VO thing is completely saturated with tremendous amounts of information that is on a sliding scale from ridiculous to mildly informative.

Additionally, Dana Linscott is a notorious character in the VO community for outrageous and inaccurate info, much of it bordering on preposterous.

I suggest research is done on him personally as a self proclaimed expert before any stock in his information is taken. Look on forums such as Infopop as an example and read through lots of threads where discussion takes place. What you have linked is his personal forum after effectively being hounded off infopop for bad advice.

just my 2 cents, but id stay away from Dana Linscott branded info without a major grain of salt of substantiation.

Zacharias · #13 09-19-2012, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ah-kay

Well, I thought it is done by a research institution. It was a comment written by an average Joe in the street. I would take it with a BIG grain of salt.

Uh, it it part of a series of basic primers on WVO issues compiled/written by Dana Linscott, who has been in the WVO movement pretty much ever since there has been a WVO movement, runs a conversion business, and has by now probably converted more than a thousand vehicles to WVO systems.

If you were to pose the question to any of the major reputable conversion kit suppliers you would get about the same reply.

I would be fascinated to hear the reeasoning for someone saying that it's permissible to push any contaminant, much less salt-contaminated oil, through a Bosch injection pump.

Zacharias · #14 09-19-2012, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dropnosky

Additionally, Dana Linscott is a notorious character in the VO community for outrageous and inaccurate info, much of it bordering on preposterous.

As I recall, none of the old timers in WVO were charm school graduates, back in the old days when I got into it, not those who hung out in forums anyway. Dana was somewhere in the middle of the scale.

If Dana has got too crusty for human consumption in some areas, that is unfortunate as in the past he helped out many.

He also eviscerated many, but I rarely saw him do it to anyone not advocating some half-baked half-done solution.

As I say, if he has gone walkabout in his ideas, that is too bad.

But I would prefer to answer reasonable rebuttals such as yours, not sarcasm and trolling.

JB3 · #15 09-19-2012, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zacharias

Uh, it it part of a series of basic primers on WVO issues compiled/written by Dana Linscott, who has been in the WVO movement pretty much ever since there has been a WVO movement, runs a conversion business, and has by now probably converted more than a thousand vehicles to WVO systems.

If you were to pose the question to any of the major reputable conversion kit suppliers you would get about the same reply.

I would be fascinated to hear the reeasoning for someone saying that it's permissible to push any contaminant, much less salt-contaminated oil, through a Bosch injection pump.

my point is here. has he?

Dana Linscott's reputation of conversions has been in question since the beginning, and specifically by other manufacturers of conversion systems. Ive never head of or seen a picture of a single Linscott conversion, and im not the only one who has that exact same opinion. From all accounts, he sell flat plate heat exchangers and instructions.

In fact, as of last year when the last time I was reading Linscott stuff, the only person who has ever even met the guy in person has been Plantdrive owner Craig Reece.

You need to check up on this guy before repeating is info as if it was verified truth and based on lab testing. No offense, but just because I say im a genius doesn't mean it should be taken at face value. The internet is an amazing medium