In search of a reliable wagon - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

limerence · #16 11-01-2012, 01:10 AM

I most definitely agree. I'm not the type to try to pick up a project on Craigs for dirt cheap and then pour money and time into it and be frustrated. The purchases I've made have been through fellow forum members that have vouched for the car. And I'm not completely new to old cars, I had a 69 squareback (not sure why VW made wagons with only two doors), and 74 FJ40 previously. I've been fortunate enough to not have to work on them myself too much. And I have a two car garage and do have room to work on cars.

As for the wife... so long as she gets a nice spa day every once in awhile, she doesn't mind the car stuff.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zacharias

Old saying: "The most expensive car in the world is a cheap Mercedes...." It is worthwhile to buy the best car you can afford, when dealing with these old dears.

These are old cars. Stuff goes wrong. Like all cars... usually not when we expect/want/have time/etc.

You need to be honest with yourself about your basic level of hands-on ability (in general) and put that in the equation with your ability to free up time to work on the car.

Other considerations: You have other vehicles. Good. Do you have a garage with space to work on a car? Do you have a spouse who'll come out and bring you coffee and be interested (or at least act it)? Or will every new announcement of "the Mercedes needs...." bring another glowering silence?

Not trying to be rude. But these cars are what they are. They can be outstandingly reliable but frustrating as well.

You sound interested but you can't ask a 27-odd-year-old car (in the case of a w123) not be that.

Codifex Maximus · #17 11-01-2012, 04:20 AM

My suggestion would be to buy an already sorted car like VStech said. I have three projects going right now and if I buy another Benz, it's gonna be cherry from the start.

That said, I love working on these cars. Can't say that about many these days.

gsxr · #18 11-01-2012, 08:42 AM

I was recently corrected that the proper statement is, "the most expensive [old/used] Mercedes is a cheap Mercedes." Which is very true, as discussed above. Best to find something well cared for with at least recent records (hard to find anything these days with records back to Day One). As to the W123 vs W124 debate, I rambled ad nauseum in this thread about that, I'll not repeat everything here, suffice to say you couldn't pay me to own another W123. I've owned several W123 diesels and multiple W124's with both gas & diesel engines so yes, I've had first hand experience with both, over many years.

That said... the factory service manuals are available online from Mercedes for free at this link, click MB Workshop Resources, then Service Manual Library. The W124 manual is available online with a much nicer, HTML-based index at this link. If you can follow instructions and have a decent set of tools, you can do most repairs & maintenance yourself. When special tools are needed, check out the forum rental program.

For spare parts, get a free subscription to the EPC here, learn how to use it to find part numbers, and then look up the part numbers from online vendors. The forum sponsor (Pelican Parts) has a good selection of brands and competitive prices on aftermarket parts (just make sure to never, ever, buy any Uro, FEQ (First Equipment Quality), or APA brand parts no matter how cheap they are). For parts which are not available aftermarket and only from the dealer (i.e., Genuine Mercedes) you can't beat the prices at parts.com, however their catalog is awful, you need to search by part number using the info you got from the EPC.

So anyway. You're either looking at a 1987 300TD as the only diesel, or a 300TE/E320. As mentioned above, skip the 4Matic, those are notoriously problematic (although fantastic in the snow when they're working properly). I would not recommend any M103 car for two reasons... first they are underpowered (particularly at low RPM), and second they need a complete valve job about every 150kmi to cure high oil consumption. Which leaves you with the M104 wagons (124.092, 1993-95, non-4Matic). The M104 has excellent power and the only weakness is the cylinder head gasket, try to find a car that has already had it replaced, and you should be fine.

Unless you have a strong incentive towards the diesel (i.e., to be smog exempt in CA, or if you brew your own biodiesel and have a cheap/free supply of VO, etc)... I'd look for a 1994-95 E320 wagon. They will be cheaper and much easier to find. It will be tough to locate a well cared for 1987 300TD at a reasonable price.

Good luck with your search!

giff · #19 11-01-2012, 09:54 AM

Limerence,

As all have said about finding a well sorted wagon.....I've bought so many cars I can't count, but when you read ads or go to see, pay attention to the passion in the seller's voice about what they've done to the car for maintenance/upgrades.....that's where you'll find the "best" vehicle for the buck.

There's a lot of flowery language descriptions and dealer cars that have isolated you from the owner/driver. You want to look the owner/seller in the eye and feel their experience with said vehicle....

Just my .02

kerry · #20 11-01-2012, 09:59 AM

I've had my 123 wagon for quite a few years and have put around 85k on it. It's been very reliable.

Simpler=Better · #21 11-01-2012, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleepstar

a wagovan... or a buick roadmaster

I vote Buick! Especially if it has the 3800 in it...that was an incredible motor. Low 30's MPG, plenty of power, and a smoooooth chassis.

I don't want to talk you out of a MB, just realize that most of the rubber parts (engine, trans, diff, subframe, etc.) are going to need replacing soon. Depending on where the car is from, rusty fuel/ brake lines, etc. If you have a reliable DD and want to learn wrenching on a 3rd car, then go for it. parts will be a bit higher-but you get what you pay for.

Zacharias · #22 11-01-2012, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by giff

but when you read ads or go to see, pay attention to the passion in the seller's voice about what they've done to the car for maintenance/upgrades.....that's where you'll find the "best" vehicle for the buck.

X2 ^^^^^^^

Very well put.

Ideally you'll find someone who, once you ask a question, you can't get them to shut up on the details. Not a requisite, but a really good sign.

Quote:

Originally Posted by limerence

I had a 69 squareback (not sure why VW made wagons with only two doors), and 74 FJ40 previously.

Hey great eye there... always wanted both of those.

Quote:

Originally Posted by limerence

And I have a two car garage and do have room to work on cars.

As for the wife... so long as she gets a nice spa day every once in awhile, she doesn't mind the car stuff.

Sounding good on all counts.

Not sure if anyone else mentioned this, but if you have a bit of flexibility to travel to look at cars, that's a huge bonus in the shopping process, doubly so if a forum member has one for sale.

Not many wagons seem to come up on our own 'classifieds' section here, but I could be proven wrong on that 15 minutes from now.

Good luck with it and welcome to the forum.

JB3 · #23 11-01-2012, 12:15 PM

so question, is there a reason why you would prefer a wagon over a minivan?

I know this is an evil statement on the diesel discussion, but if the goal is a family vehicle, and the only reason you were going diesel was reliability or economy, there are a gajillion newer family vehicles that get similar economy as the older diesels, or just a little bit less, while being just as or more reliable and cheaper to maintain.

Plenty of auto manufacturers made excellent minivans that handle just as well or better than the old MBs, drive better, hold 7 passengers, and hold more cargo.

Just an option to consider while you consider family needs for the future. Im going to go through this same discussion in the next year or so, so its been on my mind.

giff · #24 11-01-2012, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dropnosky

so question, is there a reason why you would prefer a wagon over a minivan?

I know this is an evil statement on the diesel discussion, but if the goal is a family vehicle, and the only reason you were going diesel was reliability or economy, there are a gajillion newer family vehicles that get similar economy as the older diesels, or just a little bit less, while being just as or more reliable and cheaper to maintain.

Plenty of auto manufacturers made excellent minivans that handle just as well or better than the old MBs, drive better, hold 7 passengers, and hold more cargo.

Just an option to consider while you consider family needs for the future. Im going to go through this same discussion in the next year or so, so its been on my mind.

Oh dear god, you said the "M" word.

Where's the moderator on this one? 8^)

Simpler=Better · #25 11-01-2012, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dropnosky

so question, is there a reason why you would prefer a wagon over a minivan?

I know this is an evil statement on the diesel discussion, but if the goal is a family vehicle, and the only reason you were going diesel was reliability or economy, there are a gajillion newer family vehicles that get similar economy as the older diesels, or just a little bit less, while being just as or more reliable and cheaper to maintain.

Plenty of auto manufacturers made excellent minivans that handle just as well or better than the old MBs, drive better, hold 7 passengers, and hold more cargo.

Just an option to consider while you consider family needs for the future. Im going to go through this same discussion in the next year or so, so its been on my mind.

JB you shut our mouth right now. A wagon is cooler, that's why.

Zacharias · #26 11-01-2012, 03:10 PM

Isn't it amazing that every family now "needs" a minivan. Now THAT's a marketing triumph if ever there was one.

Odd how for so many decades, families got by with stationwagons just fine.

In fact, some < GASP > even managed with sedans, and not even full-size ones (honest, I've seen photos).

Now I hear people at work saying "Oh we HAVE to get a minivan now... we're having a second child."

Wow, really? How much personal space do your small children need? Is opening a hatch to stow groceries a more personally fulfilling thing than putting them in trunk?

I get a kick out of seeing the guys in the supermarket parking lots driving minivans, checking out each others' rides to see who got stuck with the value pack and who got the wife to agree to the pimp-out package (chrome wheels, full tint, etc.).

They look to me like dogs at the shelter, checking out each other's cages....

Coming soon: Why we need $700 Grillmasters when our folks got by just fine with charcoal grills....

[/SARCASM]