Am I stupid, crazy, or a glutton for punishment? (I'm considering a newer MBZ diesel) - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

RunningTooHot · #1 03-11-2013, 12:13 AM

I’ve been selling off my fleet to consolidate down to two or three cars. I’ll keep my trusty & much loved W124 E300D with 402,000+ miles on her, but I am *thinking* about getting a newer car. Either an impeccably maintained W210 turbo (’98 or ’99) or a ’05-’06 W211 CDI. (A nice CDI is probably much easier to find than an enthusiast-owned W210 for sale.)

I am planning on many cross-country road trips during the next few years, and want something that is #1.) Reliable, #2.) RELIABLE, #3.) Gets great mileage, #4.) I can do (most) of the work on it myself, #6.) Built to Last,… and #7.) RELIABLE.

I’ve started reading up on various threads, but I would love a synopsis of opinions and pluses & minuses about either model.

inkblotz · #2 03-11-2013, 06:10 AM

The W210 E300 is the closest to your current beloved W124. It is extremely reliable and gets better gas mileage. Its only weakness is the glow plugs. Carbon builds up around the tips and makes removing difficult and sometimes they break off in the head. Mercedes created a special glow plug removal tool for this. If you replace them every 100,000 miles you should never have a problem.
This would be a nice transition car with mostly mechanical and a some computers thrown in.

Mark

Stretch · #3 03-11-2013, 06:28 AM

This depends a bit from where you buy a W210 (but not much) they are considered to be pretty bad rust buckets. This isn't to say that they are all rust buckets but you need to be careful when buying one.

Mercedes-Benz E-Class W210 1995 - Car Review | Honest John

Apparently the models after 2006 are better for the W211

Mercedes-Benz E-Class W211 2002 - Car Review | Honest John

I don't think that compared with the W123 or W124 there'll be as many W210s or W211s on the road in the future => meaning today I think that there are more 20 - 35 year old Mercedes on the road than there will be of a similar age group in the future when the W210 gets to be 30 years old...

grease lightnig · #4 03-11-2013, 06:32 AM

CDI, change the fluids regularly. Not really as hard to work on as you would think. Everything is out in the open. Same idea with the glow plugs. Gets 40 or more mpg above 70mph. Also a very nice car.

Bob

pawoSD · #5 03-11-2013, 07:48 AM

If doing tons of road trips I'd lean towards an 05-06 cdi also. If I was doing a lot of road trips I'd probably get a sprinter.

anghrist · #6 03-11-2013, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inkblotz

Its only weakness is the glow plugs.

With all due respect Mark, the glow plugs are not the W210's only weakness.

pimpernell · #7 03-11-2013, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunningTooHot

I’ve been selling off my fleet to consolidate down to two or three cars. I’ll keep my trusty & much loved W124 E300D with 402,000+ miles on her, but I am *thinking* about getting a newer car. Either an impeccably maintained W210 turbo (’98 or ’99) or a ’05-’06 W211 CDI. (A nice CDI is probably much easier to find than an enthusiast-owned W210 for sale.)

I am planning on many cross-country road trips during the next few years, and want something that is #1.) Reliable, #2.) RELIABLE, #3.) Gets great mileage, #4.) I can do (most) of the work on it myself, #6.) Built to Last,… and #7.) RELIABLE.

I’ve started reading up on various threads, but I would love a synopsis of opinions and pluses & minuses about either model.

And just like that, my 96E300d "reliable, great gas milage, do it yourself" car turned into a dangerous disaster. Passenger side spring perch failed, and suddenly my car was an accident waiting to happen. Loved working on it, kept the mechanics up to snuff, and the week before the spring perch episode, had it up on a lift to give it a good inspection. Nothing seemed out of place, all undercoating intact. A week later, after being parked overnight, I wake up to find the car listing towards the passenger side. The spring perch had failed without warning, spring was broken, and repairs would have been in the neighborhood of $2000-3000 bucks. Only saving grace was the fact that I was not traveling at 70 MPH, or I would not be here typing this note. Mercedes knows about this issue, but from my understanding is not taking any action to address it.

jcyuhn · #8 03-11-2013, 10:49 AM

Do you hear many complaints about the 211 diesel cars? I don't either. In general I think the 211 is a better long term proposition than the 210 because it does not seem to have the body rust or spring perch issues.

I think it's a draw between the '05-'06 CDI and the '07-'09 Bluetec. Obviously they are the same basic 211 chassis E-class and hence mostly the same car. The CDI seems to get better MPG, though the difference between 35MPG and 39MPG is small from a cost perspective. (At $4/gallon about $115 more every 10K miles.)

People perceive the inline 6 CDI as less complicated than the Bluetec. It does lack the DPF and the throttle butterfly of the Bluetec, but I think the two are more alike than different.

On the other hand the Bluetec has lost the SBC brake by wire system that is present in all the CDI cars.

Hence I think the risk of an expensive repair is a draw between the two. In the Bluetec's favor is that it's newer and easier to find a low miles/well cared for example. These days it's rare that I see a CDI with less than 100K miles.

YMMV,

- JimY

vstech · #9 03-11-2013, 11:44 AM

contact Jay Bob about the car he JUST bought... I think the ad is still up in the for sale section... LOTS AND LOTS AND LOTS of pictures of this fine 210...
he brought it by my place to brag, and charge up the a/c (it was TOTALLY FLAT) the car was meticulously maintained... I mean 4 BINDERS of maintenance, and upgrading done on the car... wow...

vstech · #10 03-11-2013, 11:45 AM

here's the post:

wow, this car is nice.

RunningTooHot · #11 03-11-2013, 12:27 PM

Thanks guys…

I realize the W210 uses a 606 engine, so the familiarity and longevity (comparable to my ’95) is a plus. BUT… the w210 corrosion issues are a concern. The spring perch failures, like Pimpernell’s car, scares the living soot out of me. (It’s one thing to be stranded on the side of the road because the engine quit, and quite another thing to be in an accident invoked by suspension failure.)

If I go with a W210, I’d try to source one from a dry climate area (I’m in southern California) but trying to find a *fanatically maintained* one may be difficult.

Vstech: I actually saw that car listed in the cars for sale forum a few days ago, and I was *extremely* tempted to go get it. *THAT* is what I would be aiming for in a w210. However, being from a wet climate – the spring perch issue would still haunt me.

The W211 CDI is a complete unknown to me. They (’05 & ’06) have the SBC electronic braking system, which has been very problematic. (Although under extended warrantee by MBZ now???) I’m also seeing ads & forum postings where front suspension parts are being replaced at relatively low mileages on w211’s. Valeo radiators comingling fluids with the transmissions – does that apply to the CDI’s, or gassers only? And what’s up with fuel leaks too?

The CDI’s weren’t sold in California, so it will be difficult to source one without going out of state. Again, I’d want to find one from a relatively dry climate.

The '07 &'08 BlueTecs aren’t too much more money, but there are so many questions about the reliability & longevity of the V-6 - - - and the 7-speed tranny seems very problematic too.

Hmmmm…

jcyuhn · #12 03-11-2013, 01:19 PM

I'm curious why you perceive SBC as being "very problematic." When it was first introduced in 2003 many customers brought their cars in because it was different, and made noises which they were not accustomed to. Actual problems seem to be reasonably rare.

Similarly, why do you percieve the OM642 as unproven? Mercedes replaced the OM647 (5 inline) and OM648 with variants of the OM642 in 2006 and it remains in production today - longer than the engines it replaced. It's been used in consumer and commercial vehicles around the world for 7+ years. If there were problems, don't you think they would come to light by now?

Edit: you're right about 211 ball joints, they seem to be a bit on the short lived side. On the other hand, a ball joint gives plenty of notice when needs to be replaced, and neither the part not the labor is all that expensive.

RunningTooHot · #13 03-11-2013, 02:40 PM

Jcyuhn: I have always respected your insightful & knowledgeable posts on the forum, and I DO acknowledge that you are bringing up very good points. Conversely, I am coming from a place of ignorance, and trying to educate myself in short order.

One of my favorite sayings:
Ignorance is a lack of information.
Stupidity is the lack of ability to utilize or understand (known) information

I was not aware that the V6 diesels have been in production that long, and they (apparently) have built up a good reputation. (???) The 7-G transmission remains a big question mark in my mind however. I’ll do some more reading.

Regarding SBC: if MBZ is replacing the pumps under an extended warranty (without undue denials of the warranty), then it isn’t as big of a problem as earlier perceived.

Perhaps prices for the later w211’s will drop a bit more after the 2014 E class has been on sale for a few months…

inkblotz · #14 03-11-2013, 06:56 PM

I think as mentioned that the 210 rust issue is a "where the car came from" issue not cross the board. My friends and my family have all owned several 210 chassis cars over the years with no rust what so ever. This was the first that I have heard of it.

Mark