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#1
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Help with 300 TD turbodiesel w123
Hello everybody,
This is my first post in the forum and I´d like to introduce myself. I live in Spain and have recently acquired a 1982 mb 300 td turbo w123 euro version. I knew the car from before I bought it as the owner from new was my neighbour, but he is old now and having other modern cars was giving very little use to it in the last years and finally agreed to sell it to me. I´ve had some work done to it since I bought it (mainly refreshing all the fluids and filters and a good clean up of the fuel tank), new tyres and some adjustments to the ALDA and throttle linkage to try to improve response, and now it runs quite fine (it has 380.000 original kilometers). I still have a couple of problems, though, as I have engine oil getting into the SLS reservoir. I´ve searched the internet in order to solve it and am aware of the need to rebuild the Hydraulic pump in the engine bay to reseal it. To do that I´ve ordered a kit from MB dealer that includes o-rings and gaskets (3 pieces) but I´ve read that the pump has two more o-rings that need to be replaced for a complete rebuild. I would like to ask for your help to try to discover the real dimenssions of those two extra o-rings. I know they are viton o-rings (80 FPM). The best information I´ve been able to find is that they might be 2-137 and 2-142. That´s equivalent in the metric system (the one we use in spain) to 52,07x2,62 and 59,99x2,62 but in some german forum someone says that they could be 53,65-2,62 and 62,00-2,00 instead. So, could anyone confirm me the correct measures? I´d like to be as accurate as possible to the original o-rings size. I know ************** has complete kits with all the parts needed, and if I was in the states I would order it from there for peace of mind, but now that I got half of the parts ordered from the dealer it´s easier for me to get the viton o-rings here, just need to confirm the dimenssions, and I would be grateful if someone could help. The other problem I still have is the poor performance of the car when it is below service temperature. I´ve got nothing to compare with but whenever I take the car for a ride after days without using it, for a good while the car has poor response to the throttle, barely catches speed, even after waiting some minutes before moving you have to accelerate a lot, almost to kick down and you still don´t get it to accelerate properly. If you find a hill during those first minutes it looks like it´s not going to be able to get to the top and eventually you´ll have to reduce gears to S or even L. Once you reach service temperature it goes fine accelerates well and can reach 160 km/h or so without problem and goes up hills at 100 km/h Greetings from Spain and I hope you can help me with the o-rings |
#2
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Answer
It is documented in here several times.
Self Leveling Suspension = SLS hydro pneumatic http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/general-information/151991-self-leveling-suspension-%3D-sls-hydro-pneumatic.html#post1155925 .
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ASE Master Mechanic asemastermechanic@juno.com Prototype R&D/testing: Thermal & Aerodynamic System Engineering (TASE) Senior vehicle instrumentation technician. Noise Vibration and Harshness (NVH). Dynamometer. Heat exchanger durability. HV-A/C Climate Control. Vehicle build. Fleet Durability Technical Quality Auditor. Automotive Technical Writer 1985 300SD 1983 300D 1984 190D 2003 Volvo V70 2002 Honda Civic https://www.boldegoist.com/ |
#3
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Hi whunter,
Thanks for your quick response. I´ll check the links you posted to see if there is something that I missed, I have searched a lot before posting this thread and know the process of the rebuild quite well, the problem is that from what I read I haven´t been able to verify the real measures of the two extra o-rings for the sls pump in the engine bay. The dimenssions of the level regulation pump o-rings are in one of the post you put in your response and I had read it before but unfortunately they weren´t the ones I need. As I said I´ll check again but in the meantime if someone can solve it I´d be grateful Regards Ik1 |
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as for the weak performance after a time parked, it points to air leaks, in the fuel lines. the easiest way to find leaks is to bend the lines, and they'll weep fuel, or show cracks. also, if you pressurize the fuel tank, to about 1 or 2 psi, (I use a shop vac) the lines that are leaking will show fuel most often.
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John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread "as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do! My drivers: 1987 190D 2.5Turbo 1987 190D 2.5Turbo 1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!! 1987 300TD 1987 300TD 1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere! |
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Thanks vstech,
I hadn´t thought about that, will have it checked. By the way I´ve checked the threads whunter pointed out but I still can´t find the size of the o-rings Greetings ik1 |
#6
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welcome ik1 !!
For fuel leaks, first tighten all the hose clamps on your fuel lines. for O rings, I would take the pump to a bearing place & try before you buy. it would be just your luck that for some reason MB had more than one size for different countries ! Good Luck with your car !
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Grumpy Old Diesel Owners Club group I no longer question authority, I annoy authority. More effect, less effort.... 1967 230-6 auto parts car. rust bucket. 1980 300D now parts car 800k miles 1984 300D 500k miles 1987 250td 160k miles English import 2001 jeep turbo diesel 130k miles 1998 jeep tdi ~ followed me home. Needs a turbo. 1968 Ford F750 truck. 6-354 diesel conversion. Other toys ~J.D.,Cat & GM ~ mainly earth moving |
#7
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Found this You Tube Video, it may be of help. the guy shows two Viton "O" Rings. Lower pump housing Viton# 2-142. and Upper pump seal ring Viton# 2-137. they may not come in the MB kit.
Rebuilding the Self-Leveling System Pump in a W126 Mercedes - YouTube http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/180609-sls-pump-rebuild-kit-components.html http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/306343-sls-pump-leak-unusual.html Hope these help and aren`t a repeat of one`s listed above. There is a thread a while back of installing a W124 double steering/sls pump onto a W123. another option. Charlie
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there were three HP ratings on the OM616... 1) Not much power 2) Even less power 3) Not nearly enough power!! 240D w/auto Anyone that thinks a 240D is slow drives too fast. 80 240D Naturally Exasperated, 4-Spd 388k DD 150mph spedo 3:58 Diff We are advised to NOT judge ALL Muslims by the actions of a few lunatics, but we are encouraged to judge ALL gun owners by the actions of a few lunatics. Funny how that works |
#8
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Hi Layback40,
Thanks for your advise, I´ll check the fuel lines! As for the pump, my mechanic is going to do the job and I will source him the parts needed. We ordered the dealer kit but as I said, I wanted to have the extra 2 O-rings if possible before disassembly so I won´t have to wait for days with the car in the garaje to get the O-rings (those Viton O-rings are not in stock in the shop where I´ll get them so once I order them I´ll have to wait two or three days for them to arrive. As for the size, I think that the pumps are the same in different contries (at least for what I´ve seen) and fit different models (W123, W124, W126, W201, etc). Charmalu has given good information. The youtube video of the W126 is where I had taken my previous imput from, and there it says he used 2-137 and 2-142. But he also says that 2-137 he used is larger than stock¿¿?? But in the second link he mentions http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/306343-sls-pump-leak-unusual.html we have this: " #7 10-07-2011, 10:58 PM libbybapa Goodentight Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 210 I got the leak fixed today. I couldn't find anyone with large enough metric o-rings locally and so went with standard ones that were as close as I could find. The ones I used were 3/32" CS x 2-1/8" ID, 1/16" CS x 2-1/2" I/D, and 3/32 CS x 2-1/2 I/D. The one with the smaller I/D went on the outside of the center hub (red in the picture above). The smaller CS of the two with the same ID went around the hub and the larger CS one went in the bottom of the case. With the proper o-rings, the two larger o-rings would be the same with a measurement of 2mm CS x 62mm and the single outer one would be 2mm CS x 54mm. Those measurements are a "best guess" and I obviously hold no responsibility if those measurements do not work for someone in the future. As far as pump dis-assembly is concerned, just pull the shaft out along with the bushing and then tap the case flat onto a piece of wood in order to pop the center hub out. No need to remove the pistons and the center ?stainless? ring. HTH." And then this member from france says: #22 11-25-2011, 10:18 AM tarnbarn Registered User Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Tarn, SW France Posts: 67 Hi, I changed the O-rings last week, I found 3 of them. I agree that two 2mmx63 and one 2mmx53 do the job. I just measured them with a caliper, called a local hydraulic outfit and got them picked up by somebody who happened to be passing. I paid less then 10 euro for the rings, used silicone in place of the paper gasket, had it off, repaired, refitted and bled inside 30 minutes. This is a very simple repair, just remember to treat your 1200 dollar piece of aluminium with respect! There is still no complete coincidence but it looks that the real measures can go something like 62x2 mm (tarnbarn says 63 but the used o-ring can be a bit stretched) and 53 or 54 x 2 mm, so they where nearer to the german forum. In my case, one of the 62X2 (the one around the hub) should be the one that comes in the Dealer kit, and so I need another 62X2 for the bottom of the case and one 53 or 54x 2 mm for the outside of the center hub. Would this be definitive? |
#9
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Hi,
My mechanic finally did the job about a month ago. He resealed the pump, flushed the circuit, changed the fluid and I sourced him an almost new used reservoir that was also changed. When I picked the car I was really happy with the results, and you could see that the rear of the wagon was visually at a correct level (notably higher than before even after staying parked for days, maybe he also regulated the valve in the rear when he did the job). The next day I drove the car for around 70 miles stopping for a couple of hours in the middle of the ride and when I got back I left it parked for 2 or 3 weeks just to see if after so long the rear sagged again and the reservoir was leaking again. After those three weeks without moving or starting the engine, I couldn´t see any drop of fluid out of the reservoir, in the floor or in the engine bay (I checked it) and the fluid was to level. But then, next day I took the car for a small ride (two or three miles) and parked it again and when I came back to where it is parked again four or five days later it was a mess. The floor and the engine bay had a good amount of fluid (blackish) and the reservoir was completely full and leaked through the dipstick hole in the upper part of the reservoir. Also the rear was a little lower than when was parked for so long just after four or five days. I don´t know what can have gone wrong so suddenly after the initial success. The mechanic used the MB kit and I sourced him the rest of the O-rings (even different measures to choose the proper ones from) when he did the job. Any advice of what to do now? I´m a little pissed. I thought I had solved the problem after having it parked for so long without leaks after beeing driven, and now I´m not sure if I should try to rebuild the pump again or try to get another used one that could give the same problems, or what to do (I am aware a new one is around 1.000 $ or so, and at that price I´ll have to find another solution). I have to say that the current pump looks fine from the outside and doesn´t leak from its body. It´s just what I described, engine oil getting to the SLS circuit, topping the reservoir and leaking badly to the floor. Any help would be really appreciated Greetings Ik1 Last edited by ik1; 05-13-2013 at 02:53 PM. |
#10
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Take it back to your mechanic, he should warranty his work.
__________________
2004 F150 4.6L -My Daily 2007 Volvo XC70 -Wife's Daily 1998 Ford F150 -Rear ended 1989 J-spec 420SEL -passed onto its new keeper 1982 BMW 733i -fixed and traded for the 420SEL 2003 Volvo V70 5 Speed -scrapped 1997 E290 Turbo Diesel Wagon -traded for above 1992 BMW 525i -traded in 1990 Silver 300TE -hated the M103 1985 Grey 380SE Diesel Conversion, 2.47 rear end, ABS -Sold, really should have kept this one 1979 Silver 300D "The Silver Slug" -Sold |
#11
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Hi,
I will take it to the mechanic for sure. He is an independent mechanic who has now his own shop but for years he worked for volvo and MB official dealers. I have to say that he changed all the fluids and did a general tune up before the pump rebuild and both the attention and prices were ok. It is just that before I talk to him about the failed rebuilding and the solution he offers, I´d like to hear your advise about what would you recommend, if a new rebuild would work or if it´s losing time, especially taking into account that many of you have probably been there before. Greetings Ik1 |
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