Why would you want to change the speedo gears?

Is measuring the output shaft right?
So then only your dif en wheelsize matters?

Only if Mercedes would use different gearing in de speedogears?

So i would figure if you only change the gearbox but not the dif, you don't need a other speedometer. If you change the dif aswell, then you need a other speedometer

(btw you do need a longer speedocable, the 4-speed doesn't fit)

The gearing of the speedometer is fixed at the gearbox but it is "geared" for a specific differential ratio (and a standard set of tyres on a standard set of wheels). Change the size of the wheels and you'll change the output seen at the needle on the gauge.

Change the differential - which is essentially what I'm doing as far as the gearbox is concerned - and you'll see a much bigger change than swapping tyre sizes. [Unless you've put a 5 ft lift on the suspension and a set of tractor wheels!]

The five speed gearbox expects to "see" a 3.64 differential. I have a 3.46 fitted which is correct for the 4 speed.

Finished
 

Despite forgetting a bit (see above for an edit) despite bad weather - rain did not stop play - the gearbox is now back together.

I struggled with the Haynes manual a bit - read the FSM a bit but ended up doing it my own way (well a bit my own way). Once I've worked out what all those bits are called I'll write up a description showing what I've done did...

I think DeliveryValve had a thread about adjusting the speedo to different differentials by messing with the spring... here it is.

Thanks this is what I'll probably have to do

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/3024113-post13.html

I'm pretty sure with the W201 model the speedo-gearing in the transmission is the same(even for automatic).
So if your using the same dif/wheelsize, your fine.

Its the speedometer that is different, having a K number. (For the W201 1.8 there 7 different odo meters (not counting the miles version))
Howto speedometer: 190Rev.net - Discussion for Mercedes-Benz 190E W201 Performance, Parts, Tuning and more

Well we'll see.

I'll look into that - German SPOB seem to suggest that the speedometers are all the same for petrol engined cars - I need to grab some part numbers to be sure I guess.

You are correct - I stand (and sometimes sit) corrected.

I did a bit of hunting about for data but I can't find the speedometer part numbers just yet. The gearing of a worm drive is given here =>

Worm Gears

In both the 4 speed gearbox and the 5 speed gearbox the helical gear on the output shaft has 6 starting threads. The cog on the cable drive has 15 teeth.

Using relationship on the roymech site linked above Rg = 15 / 6 = 2.5

Back to work...
 

It's about time I got this thread finished the gearbox has been ready for nearly two weeks now.


Please note this isn't a full step by step DIY. I'm showing the main bits that I did in reassembling the gearbox. I didn't take the parts off of either the lay shaft or the main shaft – I figured the gearbox was in OK enough shape for me to take a risk and just bung it back together. Hopefully you won't be seeing an addendum!


Here are some names of the parts that will help in a bit


http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1380388386

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1380388394

A – input shaft
B – 3rd / 4th gear synchro hub
C – 3rd gear
D – main shaft
E – lay shaft
F – Intermediate plate
G – 3rd / 4th gear shift lever
H – sliding reverse gear
I – 1st / 2nd gear shift lever
J – 5th / reverse gear shift lever
K – 5th gear synchro hub
L – 5th gear


As I mentioned earlier I've glued in the bearing cups in this transmission. 'Cos I've been messing about with other stuff there's been plenty of time for the glue to set before I start lubricating bearing surfaces with new ATF.


With the gearbox case front end down and rear end up you can start the reassembly.


Fit the 3rd gear 4th gear synchro to the input shaft.


http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1380388462

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1380388489

Don't forget the spring and washers and shims and the bearings


http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...asurements.jpg


Lightly lubricate the front seal for the input shaft with ATF and fit the input shaft and the 3rd gear / 4th gear shift mechanism.


http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1380388540

...continued...
 

Fit O rings to the casing so that you can fit in the pivot pins on the other side of the shift mechanisms.


http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1380388950

Fit in the pivot pin to hold the 3rd gear / 4th gear shift mechanism.


Next fit in the lay shaft.


http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1380389007

And then fit in the shaft that holds the sliding reverse gear


http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1380389059


http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1380389068

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1380389076

...continued...
 

Assemble the locking lever and spring mechanism...


http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1380389272

...and fit it to the casing. This locking lever is the cause of the hardest part of the assembly. You need to make sure that that spring does ping itself off as you fit the main shaft and the 1st gear / 2nd gear shifting mechanism goes into place.


http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1380389300


To get the main shaft in place you need about four hands – slightly lift the lay shaft and tilt it so you can get the 3rd / 4th gear synchro mechanism in position – whilst you hold the casing still so that you can push back the spring (with out pinging it off) on the locking lever. Pushing the 3rd / 4th shift lever downwards helps to get the synchro under the cogs on the lay shaft.

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1380390474

You can now fit the external shift lever on the 1st / 2nd gear shift mechanism as well as the pivot pin on the other side of the casing.

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1380390715

In an attempt to try and stop leaks I'm spraying the gaskets with Hylomar. This stuff essentially turns your gaskets into sticky fly paper. The stickiness is meant to stay sticky.


http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1380389339

Assemble the 5th gear / reverse linkage in the intermediate plate.


http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1380389386


http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1380389454

...continued...
 

The peg on the end of the reverse lever has to be slotted into the cog on the sliding shaft that you fitted next to the lay shaft.


The fork end of the lock lever needs to be positioned correctly on the sliding mechanism part of the reverse / 5th gear linkage.


http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1380389705


Once the intermediate plate is in place...


http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1380389718


...you can fit the fifth gear assembly.


http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1380389739

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1380389747

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1380389756

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1380390020


Then fit the speedometer gear


http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1380390027

...continued...
 

Fit the rear cover / tail cone section – pass the long bolts all the way through the tail cone section, the intermediate plate to the main casing and tighten carefully. Align the 5th gear shifting mechanism with help of a stick / ball end on an Allen key.


http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1380390173


Fit the shim and then the yoke before fitting the new nut.


http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1380390260

Fill the gearbox with 1.5 litres of ATF.


http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1380390187

If you are filling on the side – don't forget about the vent in the tail cone section!!!


http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1380390201

I think that's it folks. I haven't shown absolutely every step - if anyone is unsure about it all let me know I'll try and answer your questions.

Casing dimensions
 

Information for modifiers

Over all length of the 717.412 from the end of the tongue that sticks out from the back of the gear box to the mating surface at the bell housing is 51cm

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1385108545

The distance in from the end of the tongue (for the mount) to the surface of the output shaft on to which you mount a flex disc is 4cm

So distance from bell house mounting surface to flex disc mounting surface is 47cm

(Small print - I've done my best with these measurements - they should be good within a few mm - use this information at your own peril!)

Thank you so much!!!

You're very welcome.

Have you thought about shifter rods yet?

I think that data and my (oh so clever) way of calculating the length you need might be necessary. What do you think?

There's an almost out of this world chance that this weekend the gearbox gets fitted and then your chance of data from me is gone.

Yeah, that would also be useful. If you can still do that, I would love it. Thanks very much for your help!

I still haven't fitted them if you need shifter rod dimensions and lengths...

Part number for reseal kit problems
 

I was asked by someone here about the ELRING reseal kit I bought. It seems that I bought one of the last ones out there...

Alternative numbers can be found here =>

MERCEDES 124 260 00 68 (1242600068) Gasket Set, manual transmission

Mercedes p/n = 124 260 00 68
Elring p/n = 597.899
Trucktec = 02.43.131 (never heard of them before!)

124 260 9201

Is the good Mercedes number. List is $94.

I believe 0068 superseeds to that number.

Nice one if you follow the trucktec part number on findpart.org you end up with that one too

MERCEDES 124 260 9201 (1242609201) Gasket Set, manual transmission

Complicated process this part number hunting...

...three times the price for the dealer part though - I'm glad I got that elring kit => doesn't help you though.

Making your own gaskets could be a possibility - though special attention should be made to their thicknesses - as the wrong thickness will mess up the clearances for the shafts (but these of course can be adjusted with the expensive shims from the dealer! <= vicious circle)

When I rebuilt an iron case 230G transmission I made my own gaskets, it seems to be leak free a year later.

I can get ~30% off list, when I redo my 200TD trans I may just have to pony up for the OEM gasket set. I need to buy the synchros before the price goes up on them too.

Awesome work. Excellent DIY.

Help for fitting the shifter linkages
 

Just in case you get to fit your refurbished gearbox and you don't end up using it as a bit of modern art...

...the connections at the gearbox are

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...-side-view.jpg

Haynes says the connections at the shifter are

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...-positions.jpg

I have a different shifter that has reverse back and to the left and the 5th gear is top and to the right

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...d-shifter2.jpg

If you have one like this the connections shown in Haynes won't work - these do though

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...ns-car-now.jpg

Note - diameter for the "punch" used to centre the shifter is 5.5mm - a 6mm might just fit too (but I didn't have one of those in a drill bit diameter!)

)))

That reminds me - this is related

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/373964-w201-w124-5-speed-shifter-refurbishment.html

First of all i must say impressive thread and job you have done here! I read in WIS apply sealent on surface rear cover, is that overkill when there is gasket thicker than original? Haynes says remove the bolt 67 reverse shaft locking bolt, i cant see that you did in the pictures?

Ok i open up this and if you only want to change gaskets, remove all bolts, there is a bolt on the side of gearbox under the middle gear lever you need to remove. Actually you dont need to remove anything else and yes its possible to remove end cover without removing bolts for the shifter(pull up cover little and move to the right upper part), O rings original are gold price++. The only thing you need to hit replacing is the fork, but this one you see from gap under the shifter arm rear. Loctite on the two bolts holding shifter rear if removed and 8nm, 28nm rear bolts, front cover is 20nm if you have cover with tube pressed on, if seperat tube 28nm, this is WIS info. Original gasket between the middle section and gearbox is approx 0,17mm check this if you buy from other supplyer, you dont want to change this gap. In front i recomend use of seal on the bolts head at the spacer, you dont want alle the sealer in the threads.

PM in your inbox.

Hi Everyone! I am glad that I found this post. I can't figure out where I can find a replacement Tapper Bearing for my MT. It says Timken 0059 Made in England but is hard to read and Timken catalog does not have this size... measures about 13.5ID, 38.1ODmm. Tried other Bearing website catalogs but also failed. Went to local MBZ dealer and they could not match it to the diagram (came up as Needle Bearing or as a much Larger Tapper Bearing that would not fit). Can someone please help me find the right replacement and/or MBZ part number for this?http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...-new-post.html

This member listed this number for the input shaft bearing - 00079814705.

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/3628136-post4.html


.

How 717.412 different from 717.411

I have 1986 w124 250d that uses 717.411. I am experiencing vibrating or growling noise when I shift into third gear. The noise is only on 50-60kmh third gear, once I go beyond 60kmh the noise is no longer there.

I read on other forum that 711.411 has issue with third gear. However I am unable to get into the forum to ask further question as they think I am a spammer. But they are talking about third gear collapsing due to bearing.

They are the same with only a slight detail in the input shaft as a difference, or possibly the speedometer drive. They are the same at the core, but not interchangeable vehicle wise unless modifications are done. You could rebuild it, but you may be chasing your tail. Exhaust all other possibilities before considering that. A replacement is not hard to find so used may be more economical. That third gear vibration is elusive. It could be in the driveline.

I decided to jack the rear of the car and spin the wheel. I dont get vibration noise on 50-60kmh like what I experience on the road. Instead around 40kmh and it is confirmed coming from the transmission.

I was originally suspecting rear diff.

The thing is my w124 250D is the only diesel w124 in my country. I could get transmission from gas model (300E,320E,220/230) but not sure if it will fit. Would it most likely bearing issue in the gearbox?

Hello IVe got 190D with synchroniser issue on 1/2Gear... Anyone could help with dissasembly?

Just a note: the instructions for setting the bearing preload here are probably wrong. The instructions say to set them to 0.05mm clearance (play) but the WIS says preload. I don't have access to the WIS procedure right now to look up the correct procedure. Follow the WIS instructions.