717.412 (5 speed manual gearbox) refresh
 

G'day Folks,

Although I plan to use this gearbox in a petrol engined car I've decided to post this information here in the diesel forum 'cos the 717.412 was also used in many a W201 and W124 diesel engined car - it was shared by both petrol engined and diesel engined models. The guru's here on DD are more likely in my humble opinion to be the nutters (like me) who pull things to bits...

I'm going to be upgrading my new acquisition from 4 speed to 5 =>

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/tech-help/341121-achtung-das-baby-benz-thread.html

Before I went and picked up the car I had plans for a 5 speed conversion and I started to shop around for a 717.412 (because it was also fitted by Mercedes to the 201.018 chassis). I was lucky enough to find two advertised. One by a private seller and the other by the Dutch Mercedes spare parts Mafia - these are the people who will only speak to you if you call them on a mobile telephone that provides your caller ID; they don't negotiate; they don't really know what they are selling...

...so I went to see the private seller. 175 notes changed hands and the 717.412 became mine - this amount of money was well worth paying just for the entertainment factor of his dog that manages to produce a vast amount of saliva and also manages to spend more time up in the air barking than it does on the ground!

Anyway I was told the gear box was good - he even insisted that I took some second hand gear box oil with me (some people just can't let go of stuff) - and that it had only done 82,000 km.

Has anyone here ever come across a gear box that has done more than 82,000 kilometers? That isn't good? That was not owned by a little old lady... blah blah blah?

Anyway because the gear box is of unknown quality I'm pulling it to bits to see if it is OK and so I'll be posting up pictures as I go. Here's the beauty in all her mud and old oil clad glory

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...ust-bought.jpg

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1373789095

Well here we go again!
 

After spending a bit of time with engine degreaser and white spirit (yes I know you are meant to use water!) I got the outer case looking a bit better.

This transmission was removed in a hurry so I had to strip off some broken bits.

Here's the bracket for the exhaust pipe

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1373788244

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1373788466

The speedo cable

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1373788465

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1373788524

Note how the clamp for the speedo cable is actually part of the casting - you don't want to break that. Note also you need to remove the whole screw to pull out the cable.


Note to self about the propshaft - those bolts are really close to the shaft and difficult to reach with a vibration absorber fitted in place!

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1373788571

Flex disc removal

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1373788777

Only one rounded off nut this time - take no prisoners =>

Drill a hole in the side of the nut and chisel it off.

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1373788870

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1373788896

Then there's the clutch master cylinder

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1373788937

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1373788992

Once you've got the outer stuff off...

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1373789418

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1373789426

(and you've taken off the mount - doh!)

You can turn the gear box arse up onto its bell housing part and remove the output flange nut

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1373789514

Here you need to drill away the peening and then get a 30mm deep socket a grolly bar and a lump of wood to stop the shaft from turning (wedged just so)...

You can now start to remove the end cover - there are long bolts that go from the cover through a second mini casing into the big one. These are simple enough to remove but when you try and take the end cover off you'll drag the whole gear set with it - persist in doing this and you'll probably break something.

So you need to remove the little screws on the side of the casing here

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1373799402

and here

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1373799402

End cover removal
 

Once you've got these little screws on the side of the gearbox removed you can pull out the lugs that hold a shifting lever inside the gearbox in place

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1373799814

Use a bit of wood and a hammer to tap the cover off of the end of the gearbox (both lugs should be removed). Tap round and round the cover so that is comes off "squarely".

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1373799814

And before you know it...

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1373799814

...you'll be wondering if you can find gaskets that thin!

Here's the shifting mechanism that's connected to those lugs you've just removed

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1373799814

The big gear just comes off in your hand

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1373799814

Next bits to come out
 

You can now take out the speedo drive

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1373800143

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1373800143

You can now remove the first of the outer shift linkage shafts from the casing

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1373801012

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1373801116

And the bit inside too

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1373801116

These outer shift levers can only go on in four different ways - note to self the shift lever closest to the output to shaft is the only one that points up

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1373801344

Use a pair of circlip pliers to remove the circlip on the big set of cogs you can see at the moment

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1373801344

And remove the cogs

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1373801436

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1373801436

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1373801436

Look after the needle roller bearings in a plastic cage...

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1373801575

...before you remove the middle (or more accurately the in between) casing

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1373801581

Note how the middle casing has a bearing cup pressed in it. Gasket thickness is of paramount importance here.

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1373803158

Here's a view in the main casing

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1373803210

Just look at the filings on the drain plug.

You can remove that now!

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1373803324

Clean off the drain plug

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1373803433

You might want to drain out the oil now (!) so you can see the rest of the innards...

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1373803462

You can now tackle the middle shift lever (the first of the two that point downwards - orientation when transmission fitted to car)

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1373815536

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1373815536

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1373815536

Now you can get the main (lay?) shaft out - grab hold of it like Mungo in "Blazing Saddles" would and yank 'er out of there!

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1373815765

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1373815882

You can now take out the little idler cogs

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1373815907

And then the other shaft

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1373815966

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1373816024

Last few bits of the bigger disassembly
 

Now it is just the last of the external shifter linkages

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1373816188

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1373816200

The the little spring for this external shifter lever

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1373816264

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1373816236

Now the last of the cogs

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1373816590

The input shaft

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1373816590

The little inner stay...

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...ay-removal.jpg

...and then there are a few panels on the casing at the front end that I haven't taken off just yet.

Everything has been grouped into confusing plastic bags and packed away in a cardboard box for the night!

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1373816780

Cool! It looks like you know what you're doing! Of course putting it all back together is the hard part!;)

Im really interested to see what you find between the input and output shafts on the .412.

on my .411 there is an impeller there for fluid movement, but on my .412 some bonehead towed it with rear wheels on the ground and absolutely smoked that part of the transmission.

Apart from some small bearing differences, the transmissions seem identical, but I can't tell what used to be there on my .412. Looking forward with anticipation!

Great job Stretch, you and JB3 are the 5-spd Gurus.:)

Seeing an eye witness account of one of the masters in action..........price-less.:D


The Haynes manual for the 190-E 84 thru 88 Item # 1643, has an excellent break down of the 5-spd manual trans.


Charlie

So far I've been using the force - I have plans to go and read the FSM in a bit!

I've updated the pictures now - if you want to see more you know where to find me.

I'm glad to hear I'm not alone anymore - I was so relieved when MAVA turned up to repair his 722.5 - I was getting fed up of being the only one (that I knew of at the time) who takes transmissions to bits.

So JB3 - start the hints and tips!

I've only had a quick look at everything but it does indeed look like I've been lucky with this purchase. The bearing surfaces are a little discoloured but that's due to crappy oil and sitting around doing nothing. There's no evidence of over heating that I can see. The cog surfaces look good too.

I plan to

1) RTFM!
2) Have a good old clean up and inspection of the parts
3) Buy / cut out some gaskets - new O ring seals
4) Try not to take it to bits any further than I have so far and see if it will go back together within the tolerances specified in the FSM

I'd like to keep this project as a refresh rather than a full on rebuild if I can.

the biggest thing I can recall is do not forget the thrust washer that goes behind the overdrive gear when reassembling, at least on the 411, looks pretty similar for the 412. I also had a few springs I blundered and had to take apart and reassemble a few times.

you will be extremely upset if you forget that thrust washer. :D The whole thing will go back together beautifully, will shift into every gear on the bench, and when you try and put power through it, the overdrive gear will be jammed into the case and create a horrendous noise.
example of the missing thrust washer in use-
1st test drive of 1980 240D with 1984 190E 5-speed - YouTube

The 412 and 411 seem virtually identical! I see little difference between them, apart from that impeller (which I can't find a pic of)

I think I found that thrust washer in the bottom of the casing - thanks for the tip. I'll check back with you before I reassemble the gearbox if that's OK with you.

no worries!

so there was a little flat bearing thing between input and output im seeing? interesting! Im glad to get an idea of what was there

this is what was in my .412-

Im assuming this is a towing destruction, because you can see that the transmission got so hot that the actual synchro expanded enough to pop out of the splines and actuall sit on top of them on the piece on the right. Its a solid piece now.

The very end of the output shaft was snapped off in the input shaft. I don't think its possible to do that much damage actually driving the thing, most people would stop immediately and couldn't reach the levels of heat this thing apparently met. There are heat marks on the synchro lever all the way back to the side of the case.

Towing? Well I get what you are saying about the heat and probably noise - but people are stoopid they will try and drive away (from the cops!) with no wheels. May be there wasn't enough oil in it and then combine that with the absolute necessity to get to Grandma's house...

EPC pictures from the Russian EPC
 

Perhaps useful for in a bit

EPC pictures from the Russian EPC
 

Might need a favour in a bit!

My thinking is the damage to mine is consistent with the vehicle being towed with the rear wheels on the ground and rotation being applied in reverse into the gearbox, with the output shaft spinning, but the countershaft remaining idle and no lubrication being thrown up on the higher gears.

You are right though, people will cruise around with massive issues oblivious, so it definitely could have been cooked by red riding hood on an innocent errand. :D

Great writeup!

agreed!

Im waiting for him to get to the 717.400, but I see a whole series of take it to bits threads authored by stretch.

717.400 - why would I want one of those? I've just rebuilt my 722.118!

Hi Stetch, not very good with boxes but that was a mint bit of reading, dave

Dave this is the easy bit - anyone can take it to bits - as Tom says back on page one you need to put it back together again. Watch this space!

Update
 

The reading material and adjustments information is in.

Thanks goes out to those who are helping me behind the scenes - I would name you but a good spy never reveals his sources of information! For reasons of privacy I'll not name you unless you want to be known - even though I'm getting my hands and my camera dirty I couldn't do this with out you - no man is an island, so thank you all very much.

SNAKE OIL?
 

After cleaning the outer casing and starting on the inside I've discovered that three of the four tapered bearing cups that fit in the casing spin round...

...bugger...


...I can't leave them like that. The point of the bearing is that they spin on the taper bearings not on the cups in the casing. I'd rather not peen them in position so I'll probably have to dismantle and glue them in place...

...unless of course someone else has a bright idea.


So QUESTION =>

What would you do?

I'm assuming they're "square" bearings? Or a tapered housing? Can I have a picture?

I would try to hold them in mechanically, with either a press fit or deforming something to hold them in place. I don't have much faith in adhesives holding while submerged in oil, heated, and constantly vibrated.

They are tapered roller bearing cups.

I don't really want to stake / peen them in place because the casing is a bit limp wristed...

...and as for vibration - that won't be a problem 'cos I'm a very good driver!!!!

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1373991847

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1373991894

Well I removed the cups...
 

...and I have found that I've got one set of metric bearings on one shaft and one set of imperial (inch sizes) on the other...

Three of the bearing cups are FAG - the fourth is Timken (and of course with no product number on it)

Cup #1 (biggest)

FAG K14276

Outside Diameter :69.01 mm
Width :15.88 mm
Radius :1.17 mm


Cup#2

Timken (next biggest)




Cup #3

FAG 32006X onderdelenbalie.nl 10,70 ex btw

Inner diameter 30 mm
Outer diameter 55 mm
Thickness 17 mm


Cup #4

FAG AK1328


Can't find information for this one yet...


These bearing cups have most certainly been spinning in the casing because there's a bit of polishing.

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1374011795

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1374011788

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1374011801

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1374011781

Use Loctite "stud and bearing" fluid on the races. The "600" series stuff. It used to be green. Don't waste your time with the red or blue crap. They won't hold. You will need to use flame the next time you want to remove them. They WILL stay in place!

Thanks Mike that's what I was thinking.

Weird mixture of bearings though - I see no further evidence of previous tampering on the gearbox though. Perhaps this is why Getrag aren't as good as ZF?

Mike, if the green stuff has worked for you that sounds like the most practical route

I have a solution that involves a milling machine, because a mill can fix everything if you have time on your hands :D :P

I've just ordered a whole set of seals for this gear box made by Elring (Elring part number is 597.899). The set costs just under 27 euros (cheapest I could find) - I hope it has a bit more than just the front and rear seals! At present I don't know what the kit contains - bit of a gamble but it might come good.

Probably will have the middle gaskets also, o rings, and side seals where applicable. That price beats the 96 bucks I paid for two shaft neals, 3 gaskets, some o rings and a few other incidentals.

The second time I took apart my 411 to fix a synchro spring (which reminds me, those fit specifically into the synchro a certain way even though its a simple steel wire component, if you don't put them back right the spring will be chewed to bits in a couple shifts and you'll have trouble shifting for that gear) , I just used rtv gray instead of gaskets, and o rings from the local parts store, which worked well also

The spring I goofed up was I belive for 4th gear synchro, right where the input and output shaft join. The spring is pretty basic, but I think it has a little hook on one end, and that hooks around a boss on the brass synchro, I wish I had a pic, but it should be self explanatory as you look at it. Anyway, if its not held in place by this feature and can rotate, it gets chewed up pretty fast

Well it seems like for ever...
 

...since I ordered the sealing kit for the gearbox. It arrived today - about a week later than promised.

It looks quite good - may be a bit strange with paper gaskets instead of the plastic ones that were there originally but they are marked with a thickness...

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1375124913

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1375124931

The plan is to start the rebuild in about two weeks or so.

ok, found some parts to take a pic for you for reassembly-

first pic shows the 4th synchro brass clutch, and the light torsion spring in front of it. 2nd pic shows how the assembly is supposed to go together. Hook in the torsion spring points up into provision in the brass clutch.

If this piece is not hooked in the clutch piece (which is the mistake I made), what will happen is the torsion spring will be destroyed in the gearing pretty much immediately. From a drivability standpoint, this issue will present itself as a from 5th to 4th gear downshift grind, unless very slowly engaged or double clutched.

Shifting up from 3rd to 4th will be fine, but the downshift is the part that becomes a problem. the torsion spring in my .411 was reduced to about 30 tiny pieces, but I did drive it almost 12k before i took it apart. The issue is not really destructive unless you try and force the downshift, its more really really annoying, as it slows down the shift a lot. The pics are from a .412 gearbox.

Thanks for the pictures - I'm just back from a nice holiday in England (only rained on one day!). I'm going to finish off this project next week...

Hmmm 2 weeks later he's back to the grind stone...
 

...better late than never.

I think I've got all the stuff I need to start checking the gearbox.

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1378033452

The only damage I can find is on the reverse cog =>

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1378033536

You can see the edges have gone (a bit) on the large cog that's just above the tapered roller bearing in the picture above.

[Trying to provoke the only a stick shift will do crew]

To replace this cog it would not only cost money (!) but I'd have to pull the bearing off of the end of the main shaft. I can't be bothered. It is not as though this is a real gear box => it isn't an automatic transmission where this would matter <= !!!! => manual gearboxes are disposable!

[/Trying to provoke the only a stick shift will do crew]

Despite my anti-manual gearbox-ism the tolerances on these gearboxes are quite impressive. Here's what you are meant to set the parts at

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1378033541

Please note - there are no deep groove ball bearings in my gearbox. This is red herring - ignore this specification if you only have tapered roller bearings.

I have amassed a pretty impressive amount of information regarding how you are meant to strip and rebuild these gearboxes, and I must say that a lot of it is pretty confusing. I find that the Mercedes based literature for the W123 era is much easier to follow - I think this post 1985 documentation is pretty confusing.

I've gotten hold of

717.41X WIS information - not very detailed
717.43X FSM info - slightly different gearboxes to the 717.41X-es
717.44X FSM info - slightly different gearboxes to the 717.41X-es
717.412 information in the W124 Haynes manual

I had a lot of reading to do - but thanks goes to those who helped me find all of this reading material.

It all boils down to the following points

1) The input shaft is only connected to the main shaft via the lay shaft

Here's a picture of the input shaft in the bottom of the gear box

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...shaft-out2.jpg

And here's a picture of the main shaft being removed

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...-big-shaft.jpg

2) The clearance or end float of the combined input shaft and main shaft and the lay shaft needs to be correct

3) These two clearances are made between the front of the gearbox casing and the intermediate plate => middle casting bit that doesn't exist on the 4 speed gearbox

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...ring-cups-.jpg

4) The distance between the 3/4 synchro gear and the intermediate plate is important

5) You are meant to measure this with lots of special tools!

Here's what you are meant to do =>

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1378033541

You dismantle the gearbox and then knock the bearing cups on the front of the gearbox outwards of the casing. You then Install a special tool that allows you turn the shafts and tighten the clearance / end float until there isn't any; you then measure the distance of the bearing cups from the casing with a depth gauge. By measuring the distance of the shim material in the front cover to the cover mating surface you can then work out the clearance - or what the clearance should be.

I don't have this special tool.

I'm not going to buy this special tool - so I had to come up with another plan.

Certain things you might want to check (1)
 

=> Please note <= I'm not taking those pesky shafts down to component parts. There are checks to be done on the synchro parts - there are wear limits that should be checked. Like I said I'm not bothering - I'm taking a gamble - I reckon I got a diamond here. It'll be alright - it'll do a trip!

{This could bite me on the arse of course}

So assuming you've checked and re-assembled the lay shaft and the main shaft and it is all good...

...it is worthwhile making a few measurements to make sure that the bearing clearances are good.

The first thing that can be done is to check that the main shaft is at the correct height with respect to the intermediate plate.

Looking back at the specifications listed above it should be 138.4 mm

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1378035883

Spin the main shaft around on its taper roller bearing whilst it sits in the intermediate plate cup. Try making measurements at several points on the casting. Ideally you need a bigger foot on a depth gauge than the one I have.

This dimension is adjusted by changing the shims under the bearing cup in the intermediate plate.

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...-cups-out1.jpg

Note that the bearing cup for the lay shaft has NO shims!

Certain things you might want to check (2)
 

When you've measured the main shaft height from the intermediate plate you might as well have a quick check for the clearance between the main shaft and the input shaft.

Now this is a dimension that isn't "seen" when the shafts are assembled correctly.

This might sound a bit strange but it is a measurement made when there's an important part missing. In this gearbox I have a spring that is compressed between the input shaft and the main shaft. This not only spring makes it difficult to measure the combined main shaft and input shaft clearance but it needs to be removed for this measurement too.

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1378036608


You can find it within the input shaft

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1378036649

Remove the spring and reassemble the input shaft - include the little roller bearings - one shown in the picture above but don't forget the lateral one too. Fit the input shaft on top of the main shaft.

If you lift up the springy shifter bit you can see daylight!

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1378036822

Measure this distance

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1378036860

Use feeler gauges to see if the gap is 1.5 mm

Adjustment is made by the shims that would normally go on top of the spring you've removed!

An aside - that little spring
 

This little spring seems to make sure that the tapered roller bearings on the main shaft and the adjoining input shaft are always in contact with the bearing cups. This is different from the lay shaft that is only constrained by the casing.

Previously I've posted a bit information about estimating coil spring stiffness =>

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/3158425-post12.html

Using the information in that post I reckon that the spring has these properties

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1378037302

So for every 1mm of compression it is like an equivalent weight of about 17kg resting on the shafts / bearings. This demonstrates that if you happen to have the special tool to measure the combined main shaft and input shaft bearing clearance you really need to tighten that bugger down. It also shows how important it is to keep the intermediate plate firmly screwed in place!

Certain things you might want to check (3)
 

Back to the measurements.

Lay shaft next.

My method was to fit the shims that I had to the front casing cover and then refit the bearing cups in the front part of the main casing.

I temporarily screwed the front cover in place.

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1378037609

I then temporarily fitted the lay shaft and intermediate plate and measured the clearance / end float directly.

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1378037698

Be sure to clamp the intermediate plate in place you are looking for a clearance of 0.05mm

Mine is a bit out. It has a clearance of 0.16mm so I need to add in a 0.1 mm shim under the bearing cup. (This makes me wonder if I've lost a shim of course)

So off to the dealer I go - further rebuilding work delayed until next week!

Note - a magnetic base doesn't work on an aluminium alloy casting - hold it tight and be careful - make sure you get a good measurement.

Certain things you might want to check (4)
 

To check the combined main shaft and input clearance you can get a pretty good idea by leaving that little spring out again - fitting the two shafts together just like you did above but this time temporarily fitting them to the casing and then fitting the intermediate plate (much like you did for the lay shaft - remove the lay shaft for this though).

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1378038156

With that spring removed you can pull up and down on the main shaft.

The downside is that it is harder - when working as a one man band - to measure this end float as the input shaft could be flapping about below.

I assumed that the input shaft was sitting as it should - that its weight was holding the tapered roller bearing up against the bearing cup in the front cover. This is an assumption though - so watch out if you too want to do it this way.

I consistently managed to measured an end float of 0.04 mm - not bad considering the method used.

With that evil little spring back in place I'm quite certain that there'll be no sloshing about between the bearing cups anyway...

Certain things you might want to check (5)
 

Last thing you might want to consider is the cap on the speedometer drive. This meant to be pushed into the casing so that the gap between the speedometer drive and the casing is 0.5 mm

Note Haynes says 5 mm (!!!! => typical!)

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1378038922

My gap is 1 mm

I'm not sure if I can be bothered to set it again - it will probably leak if I do.

Also I'm going to take the tail cone off of the 4 speed gear box I've got just to see if the speedo parts are different 'cos the W201.018 has different differentials for 4 speed and 5 speed transmission. So this job might not be necessary in my case anyway...

Update.

Progress is slow. I was informed by the dealer that the shims for gearboxes are pretty expensive (I need one for the lay shaft) so I went off on a tangent taking the 4 speed gearbox that was originally fitted to the 190E to bits. I was hoping to find some shims that would do. Unfortunately the 4 speed gearbox has deep groove ball bearings and no shims on the lay shaft...

...so back to the dealer to ask for the shim I went. Scrunched up eyes and half closed ears - waiting for the kick in the dangly bits - one euro eighty plus tax!

Spares man at the dealer has updated the MB VIN records for the car saying that a 717.412 is now fitted though.

Part gets here on Tuesday. With good weather and a stress free week I hope to have time to finish off this project.

{Got to get the car back together soon - I'm getting fed up with car parts all over the place}

From small acorns...
 

...I got the new shim from the dealer - part 202 263 04 52 => 0.9mm shim which replaced the other ones for the lay shaft in the front cap to give a clearance that is back to the 0.05mm spec (see previous posts for data).

You can no longer feel any shaft movement between the bearing cups with the intermediate plate fitted but the bearings spin freely!

Because of the evidence of bearing cups spinning in the casing

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...-cups-out1.jpg

I'm using a glue to hold them in place.

I knocked out the bearing cups again - well lifted them most of the way out with my fingers - and then set to work sealing the front cover.

You are meant to use a jointing compound (that I don't have) to make the screw threads leak proof. For the sake of all things German I decided to use Permatex Black RTV and just get on with my life (and stop this incessant shopping).

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1378998074

Wipe off the excess on both sides of the cover (whether you use the correct stuff or the RTV or what ever you choose)

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1378998045

EDIT - guess who forgot a bit?

Put this on as well!

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1379172789

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1378998063

Don't forget the shims. They can be installed when the cover has been fitted...

If you are doing this by the book the bearing cups and shims would already be in place. What I'm showing here is potentially a little dodgy but I think I'm making a suitable compromise between leaving the cups as they are and doing a proper job. If anyone revisits these bearing cups after me they might need to use a hydraulic press to get the cups out but other than that hopefully my choice of using glue now won't cause too much trouble...

...this is not advisable - once these cups are glued in place the distance between the cups is fixed - you can no longer adjust with shims (unless you strip the cups out again of course)

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1378998590

After applying a continuous thin bead of glue around the bearing cup I made sure the bearing cups were seated in the correct position on top of the shims <= you don't want to mess that up!

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1378998604

I'm leaving them over night to set before I start oiling up the inside of the gearbox and start putting the shafts back in.

Speedometer concerns
 

Well I tried to think ahead. I took some of my old 4 speed gearbox to bits to see if I could swap over the speedometer drive parts so when I fit the 5 speed to the 190E with the differential for the 4 speed box all will be good on the gauge.

The tail cone sections / end sections are very different =>

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1379158476

You can see on the 716.217 tail cone - that's the one on the left - that the cog on the output shaft is bigger and the drive for the speedo cable is about 1mm smaller in diameter than the 717.412 tail cone - which is on the right.

So if you hear of a "swap the tail cone" suggestion - jump all over the bugger who said that!


Next step - was to think OK fit the cogs from one casing in the other =>


http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1379158734

...as you can see they are of different thicknesses...

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1379158740

...so I had visions of making spacers to fit the difference in width. Luckily I didn't go off on that tangent for too long. The biggest problem is the diameter of the larger 716.216 shaft cog - it doesn't fit in the 717.412 casing =>

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1379158946

So that's that.

I'll have to have an external adjustment thingumyjig to correct for the 4 speed diff on my W201.

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...oad-speeds.jpg