717.412 (5 speed manual gearbox) refresh - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Stretch · #1 07-14-2013, 03:44 AM

G'day Folks,

Although I plan to use this gearbox in a petrol engined car I've decided to post this information here in the diesel forum 'cos the 717.412 was also used in many a W201 and W124 diesel engined car - it was shared by both petrol engined and diesel engined models. The guru's here on DD are more likely in my humble opinion to be the nutters (like me) who pull things to bits...

I'm going to be upgrading my new acquisition from 4 speed to 5 =>

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/tech-help/341121-achtung-das-baby-benz-thread.html

Before I went and picked up the car I had plans for a 5 speed conversion and I started to shop around for a 717.412 (because it was also fitted by Mercedes to the 201.018 chassis). I was lucky enough to find two advertised. One by a private seller and the other by the Dutch Mercedes spare parts Mafia - these are the people who will only speak to you if you call them on a mobile telephone that provides your caller ID; they don't negotiate; they don't really know what they are selling...

...so I went to see the private seller. 175 notes changed hands and the 717.412 became mine - this amount of money was well worth paying just for the entertainment factor of his dog that manages to produce a vast amount of saliva and also manages to spend more time up in the air barking than it does on the ground!

Anyway I was told the gear box was good - he even insisted that I took some second hand gear box oil with me (some people just can't let go of stuff) - and that it had only done 82,000 km.

Has anyone here ever come across a gear box that has done more than 82,000 kilometers? That isn't good? That was not owned by a little old lady... blah blah blah?

Anyway because the gear box is of unknown quality I'm pulling it to bits to see if it is OK and so I'll be posting up pictures as I go. Here's the beauty in all her mud and old oil clad glory

Stretch · #2 07-14-2013, 03:52 AM

After spending a bit of time with engine degreaser and white spirit (yes I know you are meant to use water!) I got the outer case looking a bit better.

This transmission was removed in a hurry so I had to strip off some broken bits.

Here's the bracket for the exhaust pipe

The speedo cable

Note how the clamp for the speedo cable is actually part of the casting - you don't want to break that. Note also you need to remove the whole screw to pull out the cable.

Note to self about the propshaft - those bolts are really close to the shaft and difficult to reach with a vibration absorber fitted in place!

Stretch · #3 07-14-2013, 04:03 AM

Flex disc removal

Only one rounded off nut this time - take no prisoners =>

Drill a hole in the side of the nut and chisel it off.

Then there's the clutch master cylinder

Stretch · #4 07-14-2013, 04:13 AM

Once you've got the outer stuff off...

(and you've taken off the mount - doh!)

You can turn the gear box arse up onto its bell housing part and remove the output flange nut

Here you need to drill away the peening and then get a 30mm deep socket a grolly bar and a lump of wood to stop the shaft from turning (wedged just so)...

You can now start to remove the end cover - there are long bolts that go from the cover through a second mini casing into the big one. These are simple enough to remove but when you try and take the end cover off you'll drag the whole gear set with it - persist in doing this and you'll probably break something.

So you need to remove the little screws on the side of the casing here

and here

Stretch · #5 07-14-2013, 04:17 AM

Once you've got these little screws on the side of the gearbox removed you can pull out the lugs that hold a shifting lever inside the gearbox in place

Use a bit of wood and a hammer to tap the cover off of the end of the gearbox (both lugs should be removed). Tap round and round the cover so that is comes off "squarely".

And before you know it...

...you'll be wondering if you can find gaskets that thin!

Here's the shifting mechanism that's connected to those lugs you've just removed

The big gear just comes off in your hand

Stretch · #6 07-14-2013, 04:18 AM

You can now take out the speedo drive

You can now remove the first of the outer shift linkage shafts from the casing

And the bit inside too

Stretch · #7 07-14-2013, 07:09 AM

These outer shift levers can only go on in four different ways - note to self the shift lever closest to the output to shaft is the only one that points up

Use a pair of circlip pliers to remove the circlip on the big set of cogs you can see at the moment

And remove the cogs

Stretch · #8 07-14-2013, 07:09 AM

Look after the needle roller bearings in a plastic cage...

...before you remove the middle (or more accurately the in between) casing

Note how the middle casing has a bearing cup pressed in it. Gasket thickness is of paramount importance here.

Here's a view in the main casing

Just look at the filings on the drain plug.

You can remove that now!

Stretch · #9 07-14-2013, 07:34 AM

Clean off the drain plug

You might want to drain out the oil now (!) so you can see the rest of the innards...

You can now tackle the middle shift lever (the first of the two that point downwards - orientation when transmission fitted to car)

Stretch · #10 07-14-2013, 07:35 AM

Now you can get the main (lay?) shaft out - grab hold of it like Mungo in "Blazing Saddles" would and yank 'er out of there!

You can now take out the little idler cogs

And then the other shaft

Stretch · #11 07-14-2013, 08:06 AM

Now it is just the last of the external shifter linkages

The the little spring for this external shifter lever

Now the last of the cogs

The input shaft

The little inner stay...

...and then there are a few panels on the casing at the front end that I haven't taken off just yet.

Everything has been grouped into confusing plastic bags and packed away in a cardboard box for the night!

t walgamuth · #12 07-14-2013, 08:43 AM

Cool! It looks like you know what you're doing! Of course putting it all back together is the hard part!

JB3 · #13 07-14-2013, 10:28 AM

Im really interested to see what you find between the input and output shafts on the .412.

on my .411 there is an impeller there for fluid movement, but on my .412 some bonehead towed it with rear wheels on the ground and absolutely smoked that part of the transmission.

Apart from some small bearing differences, the transmissions seem identical, but I can't tell what used to be there on my .412. Looking forward with anticipation!

charmalu · #14 07-14-2013, 11:06 AM

Great job Stretch, you and JB3 are the 5-spd Gurus.

Seeing an eye witness account of one of the masters in action..........price-less.

The Haynes manual for the 190-E 84 thru 88 Item # 1643, has an excellent break down of the 5-spd manual trans.

Charlie

Stretch · #15 07-14-2013, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

Cool! It looks like you know what you're doing! Of course putting it all back together is the hard part!

So far I've been using the force - I have plans to go and read the FSM in a bit!

Quote:

Originally Posted by JB3

Im really interested to see what you find between the input and output shafts on the .412.

on my .411 there is an impeller there for fluid movement, but on my .412 some bonehead towed it with rear wheels on the ground and absolutely smoked that part of the transmission.

Apart from some small bearing differences, the transmissions seem identical, but I can't tell what used to be there on my .412. Looking forward with anticipation!

I've updated the pictures now - if you want to see more you know where to find me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by charmalu

Great job Stretch, you and JB3 are the 5-spd Gurus.

Seeing an eye witness account of one of the masters in action..........price-less.

The Haynes manual for the 190-E 84 thru 88 Item # 1643, has an excellent break down of the 5-spd manual trans.

Charlie

I'm glad to hear I'm not alone anymore - I was so relieved when MAVA turned up to repair his 722.5 - I was getting fed up of being the only one (that I knew of at the time) who takes transmissions to bits.

So JB3 - start the hints and tips!

I've only had a quick look at everything but it does indeed look like I've been lucky with this purchase. The bearing surfaces are a little discoloured but that's due to crappy oil and sitting around doing nothing. There's no evidence of over heating that I can see. The cog surfaces look good too.

I plan to

1) RTFM!
2) Have a good old clean up and inspection of the parts
3) Buy / cut out some gaskets - new O ring seals
4) Try not to take it to bits any further than I have so far and see if it will go back together within the tolerances specified in the FSM

I'd like to keep this project as a refresh rather than a full on rebuild if I can.