Drove an acquaintances 2014 E series blue tec today - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

pawoSD · #16 05-01-2014, 01:02 PM

So far my bro's W210, which is over 12 years old, has been flawless compared to his 300D that it replaced. Mechanically the 300D drove ok....but it had tons of problems and just about nothing non-powertrain worked other than the drivers power window and headlights....it died from rust etc around 251k. We still have the engine, runs great.

Every single thing still works on his E320, and works well. Suspension is tight, steering is tight, brakes are awesome....sound system and climate are great, interior still perfect....and its coming up on 151k miles. M112 v6 engine is indestructible and gets better mileage with 2x the power than a 617.

Same for my dad's E320....and even my C240 4matic wagon.

No issues with any of them....

Design has improved in a lot of things over the years.

One of the best features of his E320, nearly unstoppable in the snow compared to the 300D. He was able to plow through snow 10" deep at times this past winter without getting stuck thanks to the modern traction control systems.

Electronic cars aren't that scary....problem is most people are scared of technology. I plan on getting myself a full MB laptop at some point so I can do full tinkering and repair to my newer car(s).

Graham · #17 05-01-2014, 02:17 PM

My 72 R107 (and most Benzes of that era) has electronic fuel injection. The computer has a couple of printed circuit boards populated with diodes, transistors, capacitors, resistors and what have you. Much like a 60s transistor radio (Did they have them then?). Must weigh several pounds. These days, they could probably put most of that on a postage stamp sized chip.

Amazing thing, is that those old ECUs seldom fail. You would think that with the advances in electronic design, the new car management systems should be much better. But, I suppose there are so many more of them, and perhaps it is the non-electronic components that will fail (like motors, sensors etc)

I have had an "electronic" 98 E320 for 13 years.
Problems:
- transmission fluid wicking up the cables into the computer that controls the tranny causing errors.
- occasional overheating of the box that contains the computer modules. A small computer fan had failed.
- MAP sensor failure. Causes a CE light. Easy to change, but expensive.

On a 2006 smart CDI we had, we had an electronic problem that prevented car from actuating clutch. It cost me about $2000 for dealer to fix wrong propblem. They tried several more times before replacing complete harness and engine module. Then it worked. Luckily I only had to pay for initial repair. No way this would have been DIY repair.

We traded the smartcar on a new GLK250. But I bought the extended warranty up front. We are fully covered for 6 years and drivetrain and emission controls for another year or two.

pawoSD · #18 05-01-2014, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham

My 72 R107 (and most Benzes of that era) has electronic fuel injection. The computer has a couple of printed circuit boards populated with diodes, transistors, capacitors, resistors and what have you. Much like a 60s transistor radio (Did they have them then?). Must weigh several pounds. These days, they could probably put most of that on a postage stamp sized chip.

Amazing thing, is that those old ECUs seldom fail. You would think that with the advances in electronic design, the new car management systems should be much better. But, I suppose there are so many more of them, and perhaps it is the non-electronic components that will fail (like motors, sensors etc)

I have had an "electronic" 98 E320 for 13 years.
Problems:
- transmission fluid wicking up the cables into the computer that controls the tranny causing errors.
- occasional overheating of the box that contains the computer modules. A small computer fan had failed.
- MAP sensor failure. Causes a CE light. Easy to change, but expensive.

On a 2006 smart CDI we had, we had an electronic problem that prevented car from actuating clutch. It cost me about $2000 for dealer to fix wrong propblem. They tried several more times before replacing complete harness and engine module. Then it worked. Luckily I only had to pay for initial repair. No way this would have been DIY repair.

We traded the smartcar on a new GLK250. But I bought the extended warranty up front. We are fully covered for 6 years and drivetrain and emission controls for another year or two.

Where is the computer box that contains this fan located on the W210?

Skid Row Joe · #19 05-01-2014, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rebe

Can anyone explain what is Distronic CC??

A distance between the vehicle and or object the car is approaching or following, cruise control / stopping system. Great system, btw!

spdrun · #20 05-01-2014, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham

My 72 R107 (and most Benzes of that era) has electronic fuel injection. The computer has a couple of printed circuit boards populated with diodes, transistors, capacitors, resistors and what have you. Much like a 60s transistor radio (Did they have them then?). Must weigh several pounds. These days, they could probably put most of that on a postage stamp sized chip.

Is that digital EFI, or is it some sort of analog computer?

Graham · #21 05-01-2014, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spdrun

Is that digital EFI, or is it some sort of analog computer?

Don't think they had heard of digital in 1972 had they? But I think they did by the 80s.

I am sure ECU is an analogue computer. First production car with Bosch Jetronic was a VW1600 in 1967, I believe.

spdrun · #22 05-01-2014, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham

Don't think they had heard of digital in 1972 had they? But I think they did by the 80s.

You'd be surprised. I think the 4004 and 8008 (predecessors to the x86 family) came out right at the turn of the 1970s. They were used in a lot of embedded applications.

Skid Row Joe · #23 05-01-2014, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob338

I'm sure the OP is talking about the E250 with the 4 cylinder. I had one of the E350 BlueTec's, among the first to come out in 2011, with the 6 cylinder. I ordered the Sport Suspension, and what a ride that was. I put near 50K miles on it before I got rid of it and never had one single solitary problem with anything. Great car, but too much car to go to the grocery store and back, and way too big for my taste, but the handling was terrific though some would say a bit stiff with that suspension. I got one of the first GLK250 BlueTec's and at almost one year old I've come closer to true love than I did with the E350. Still prefer to drive my 190D, and I thinks it's as good as those other two, or better. Have yet to decide if I'll keep the GLK long term, but I know I'll keep the 190D!

I had the luxury of shopping for a period of a couple years, ALL the used diesel W211s and W212s before deciding on the early, I6 W211. After owning a bought-new and owned 14-years W210 diesel (sig) and contrasting/comparing the experience and the value over buying new, it was a no-brainer which to do - buy used. I don't lease cars/SUVs/trucks as some are locked into doing, so I have the freedom of choice there too. The new diesel E250s and GLK250s were so out-of-the-question for me to get value out of buying new, that I kept coming back to the (IMO) supreme-value of the past 12-years, and that was the 05/06 E320 CDIs. Which is what I very happily paid a pittance for versus the $50K+ 2013/14 diesel E250/GLKs. What I drive now suits my needs to a "T." I'm once again, a very happy buyer of the used MB diesels, versus the new ones.

Mark DiSilvestro · #24 05-01-2014, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pawoSD

So far my bro's W210, which is over 12 years old, has been flawless compared to his 300D that it replaced. Mechanically the 300D drove ok....but it had tons of problems and just about nothing non-powertrain worked other than the drivers power window and headlights....it died from rust etc around 251k. We still have the engine, runs great.

Every single thing still works on his E320, and works well. Suspension is tight, steering is tight, brakes are awesome....sound system and climate are great, interior still perfect....and its coming up on 151k miles. M112 v6 engine is indestructible and gets better mileage with 2x the power than a 617.

Same for my dad's E320....and even my C240 4matic wagon.

No issues with any of them....

Design has improved in a lot of things over the years.

One of the best features of his E320, nearly unstoppable in the snow compared to the 300D. He was able to plow through snow 10" deep at times this past winter without getting stuck thanks to the modern traction control systems.

Electronic cars aren't that scary....problem is most people are scared of technology. I plan on getting myself a full MB laptop at some point so I can do full tinkering and repair to my newer car(s).

I'm not trying to say that all high-tech electronics are unreliable. Just that they will have a hard time surviving until they're 30-35 years-old - the typical age of our vintage 616-617 diesels. And a harder time repairing the electronics when they malfunction. But then most people buying a W210 or a C240 4-matic don't plan on keeping them 'till they achieve antique status.

Happy Motoring, Mark

Zulfiqar · #25 05-01-2014, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pawoSD

Where is the computer box that contains this fan located on the W210?

I want to know about that too.

Graham · #26 05-01-2014, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zulfiqar

I want to know about that too.

First of all, it is only there on the gas version.

Under the hood, on the passenger side just in front of the firewall, is the "computer box". MB call it something else. It contains a series of modules. Way down under those modules, is a small computer fan. It draws air from the interior of the car and blows it into the computer box. Much like a desktop computer does.

I am posting from Playbook, so dont have pics handy. But will see if I can find a link:

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w210-e-class/1643982-apparatus-module-case-cooling-fan-blower.html.

Fan is under here

engatwork · #27 05-01-2014, 06:15 PM

I think that in the new cars they are using a small charged refrigerant sourced heat exchanger to provide the cooling for the condenser. Now how neat is that. Excellent idea and I can't imagine it costing more than the air evap, fan and assorted controls for the fan. Wonder if the flow thru the refrigerant heat exchanger is fixed or controlled. I would think a properly sized fixed one would cover the range of temperature variation that the car will see. That is one of the best items I have heard of lately next to the distronic.

Not only will distronic adjust the cars speed while the one in front slows down it will come to a complete stop if the one in front does. I did not try it out

. PPL that text and drive will love it. Texting and driving is not something I am capable of doing.

65aircooled · #28 05-01-2014, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by engatwork

Man what a ride. My thoughts regarding it are as follows:

When taking a curve, say to the left, the right opposite side back of the seat pushes harder on your back. In addition, the seats will massage you while you ride. When you cross the center line or line to the right in the road the steering wheel shakes like a video game. You could not tell the engine was a four cylinder diesel and it seemed to have plenty of power. If you let go of the steering wheel for awhile on the interstate it will flash a red warning on the instrument cluster to tell you to put your hands back on the wheel. This should make it a lot easier to text while driving or do your make up

. It does have two cup holders in the front which the wife would like

.

The absolute best thing, in my opinion, was the distronic cruise control. That was one of the nicest features I've ever seen in a car.

The whole time I was driving I attempted to imagine what the car will be like in 20+ years with 250k miles. I'm sure the drivetrain will be rock solid. I'd be concerned the seat would get stuck shoving you over to one side or the other or it would get stuck into one of the massage positions.

Nice, nice car but I think, for the time being, I will stick with the 95 E300

.

Regarding the seats, my -almost- 10 year older car has them, dynamic seats. The dynamic part in the older cars is pneumatic and it adjusts based on speed and steering as yiou described. The faster you take a curve the harder the sides will inflate and so on. The lower back massage is mechanical and it is set to last only 5 minutes at the time for "safety" reasons. I have read about the air pump failing in several cases which ppl say costs around $800 to replace, worst case scenario, bladders have fail inside the seat and are a nightmare to replace or so I've read. I continue to enjoy mine and hope to for years to come. It is cool but not new technology.

I can live without the video game vibration feature of the steering wheel or the flashing light remainding me to put my hands back on the steering wheel

pawoSD · #29 05-02-2014, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark DiSilvestro

I'm not trying to say that all high-tech electronics are unreliable. Just that they will have a hard time surviving until they're 30-35 years-old - the typical age of our vintage 616-617 diesels. And a harder time repairing the electronics when they malfunction. But then most people buying a W210 or a C240 4-matic don't plan on keeping them 'till they achieve antique status.

Happy Motoring, Mark

Maybe not to antique status but I do intend to keep my C240 wagon for a long long time, its a fantastic car. Not the most powerful but it doesn't need to be. It will still do a sub 8 second 0-60, which is plenty for a family vehicle

Most of the time its driving 20-55mph. I have no doubt it will long outlast the vw wagon that I dumped to get it.

The older W126's and W124's still seem to be around and they have a fair amount of electronics too, my 420SEL has no electronic problems and it has an ABS computer, security system, climate, Electronic Injection control module...the radio is electronic....all still works fine...and its 25+ years old.

Hardened embedded style computers tend to last a LONG time.

Mark DiSilvestro · #30 05-02-2014, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pawoSD

Maybe not to antique status but I do intend to keep my C240 wagon for a long long time, its a fantastic car. Not the most powerful but it doesn't need to be. It will still do a sub 8 second 0-60, which is plenty for a family vehicle

Most of the time its driving 20-55mph. I have no doubt it will long outlast the vw wagon that I dumped to get it.

The older W126's and W124's still seem to be around and they have a fair amount of electronics too, my 420SEL has no electronic problems and it has an ABS computer, security system, climate, Electronic Injection control module...the radio is electronic....all still works fine...and its 25+ years old.

Hardened embedded style computers tend to last a LONG time.

I do enjoy a couple 'modern' mid-90s Asian daily-drivers that have plenty of electronic systems - but not to the extreme degree we're headed today. Do we really need computers to reshape the seats, vibrate the steering wheel or turn on the wipers - how lazy do we need to be! Plus, my two daily-drivers cars still have a reputation for reliability - something that Mercedes has lost in the past 25 years or so. And don't get me started on what I think of VW!
But if my daily drivers do get to the point where they're not practical to repair, they'll get replaced.

OTOH, I prefer to keep my vintage cars simple. My two W123 Benzes have no computers at all. At least, if rust doesn't kill 'em, I might have a fighting chance to keep them indefinitely. And as refined as my 'modern' vehicles are, I still enjoy the experience of actually operating and driving my 'primitive' stickshift 240D, and not just having the vehicle do everything for me. There's something about these old 'Taxis', where one was expected to take pride in their basic engineering, quality and durability. Today's electronic marvels are designed to be disposable and usually get dumped as soon as the next generation of gadgets becomes the expected norm.
I don't know if it's a myth, but I heard a story many years ago about a Mercedes spokesman in the '50s being asked why they didn't offer power windows and other niceties like on American luxury cars. His response "If you can't roll down a window, you shouldn't be driving!"

Happy Motoring, Mark