Sanden converts: What say you? - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

funola · #16 08-04-2014, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ROLLGUY

Thank you for your opinion.

Not my opinion. It is industry standard.

engatwork · #17 08-04-2014, 05:36 PM

"standards" cars are built by or I beams bolted together?

JamesDean · #18 08-04-2014, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by funola

Not my opinion. It is industry standard.

Quote:

Originally Posted by engatwork

"standards" cars are built by or I beams bolted together?

Its going to vary by industry, not all joints are created equal. As the author states in this post

Recommendation on Thread Engagement « Ask the Expert Blog Archive « Ask the Expert

http://www.ajaxfast.com.au/downloads/Technical%20notehowmanythreads.pdf

Quote:

Conclusion:
If a bolt and a nut are made of the same material the minimum thread engagement length required is
approximately 65% of the nominal diameter. For example a M10 bolt will need a minimum of 6.5mm
of thread engagement. Typically standard nut height is approximately 80-90% of its nominal diameter.

The across flat dimension of a nut should be approximately 167% if the nominal diameter.
If the joint will only be subject to a fraction of the proof load of the bolt, then the required minimum
thread engagement length can be calculated by the formula described above. It is appropriate to apply a
safety margin of approximately 30% on the calculated minimum length to account for higher order
effects. It should, however, be noted that the torque tension relationship will be affected if the
engagement length is altered.

If the designer has a good understanding of the maximum bolt load a particular tensile bolted joint may
see in its design life; designing the minimum engagement length requirement using the above procedure
may help achieve a better engineered design

RavenTBK · #19 08-06-2014, 07:35 AM

I took things out of the box when I received the kit, but I really didn't pay attention to what hardware was in it. Of course a staked locknut is best, but as an indy installed the kit, I cannot verify that one of the nuts was dropped in the floor and replaced with another that simply fit.

The rest of the hardware is still tight and good, but I do need to replace this missing piece. Poked around yesterday and saw I do have limited access from above to fix this with my stubby wrenches. I doubt I could source a staked nut locally, so I will likely have to settle on a nylock, or doubled up jammed nuts to lock it down.

What size bolt is it that's in the kit? Stainless correct? I'm looking at being able to the the hardware store around lunch time to pick it up, and pop it in before class when she's cool.

BillGrissom · #20 08-06-2014, 10:01 AM

I have a Sanden SD7H13 (shorty) w/ Rollguy's bracket in my 85 300D (factory hoses & condenser) and the factory R4 compressor in my 1984, both w/ Duracool HC refrigerant and their PAO 68 oil. Both cool similar, and neither works great when >100 F outside. I haven't run the 1985 much this summer since the cabin blower stopped working (fixed, see post).

If you aren't getting cool air from the vents and the expansion valve is cool (passenger under-dash), clamp off the heater hose by the oil filter to insure your mono-valve isn't adding heat.

RavenTBK · #21 08-06-2014, 10:33 PM

Just to update, I pulled another bolt to see what the threads were as I got no replies here. For future searchers, the bolts in the kit where the compressor hooks to the bracket are 3/8-24, 1.25" in length.

The bolt that I pulled had a capnut on it...no clue how that got there. Another was an allen head, with the metal locknut. The remaining one was the correct bolt/metal locknut combo. So it seems like the indy juggled hardware around and lost the kit contents and simply put together what he had.

I managed to find some all metal locknuts at the store, but due to the positioning mentioned in the above photograph, I could not get it installed beyond finger tight. No room for tools. Easiest access was from the top, one arm feeding just below the P/S pulley, between the oil cooler lines, the other from behind the P/S pump, all while contorted to a position where I could see the bolt with one eyeball through the maze of lines. I never got a response about how to easily get to the bolt, nor could I find any easy way to drop the compressor down.

Seems as though the board failed me this go-round. Tomorrow I will likely purchase a couple more wobbles swivels and extensions to see if I can get enough twisting action in that little space....that is, if the finger tight locknut doesnt back out and fall out during the commute home and back to work.

ROLLGUY · #22 08-06-2014, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RavenTBK

Just to update, I pulled another bolt to see what the threads were as I got no replies here. For future searchers, the bolts in the kit where the compressor hooks to the bracket are 3/8-24, 1.25" in length.

The bolt that I pulled had a capnut on it...no clue how that got there. Another was an allen head, with the metal locknut. The remaining one was the correct bolt/metal locknut combo. So it seems like the indy juggled hardware around and lost the kit contents and simply put together what he had.

I managed to find some all metal locknuts at the store, but due to the positioning mentioned in the above photograph, I could not get it installed beyond finger tight. No room for tools. Easiest access was from the top, one arm feeding just below the P/S pulley, between the oil cooler lines, the other from behind the P/S pump, all while contorted to a position where I could see the bolt with one eyeball through the maze of lines. I never got a response about how to easily get to the bolt, nor could I find any easy way to drop the compressor down.

Seems as though the board failed me this go-round. Tomorrow I will likely purchase a couple more wobbles swivels and extensions to see if I can get enough twisting action in that little space....that is, if the finger tight locknut doesnt back out and fall out during the commute home and back to work.

Sorry, I have not had internet access until now. It is a little more work, but you can move the compressor in enough to remove the belt, and then swing the compressor away from the engine enough to get a wrench between the compressor and plate from below. Once the bolts are tight enough to barely be able to move the compressor, you can install and adjust the belt. The compressor to plate bolts need to be socket head cap screws. These are much easier to tighten than regular hex bolts because of the tight quarters. Yes a double nut is a great idea so you never have to worry about it loosening. I use all fine thread fasteners whenever possible, and along with the all metal lock nuts, that helps keep them tight.....Rich

dennislarock · #23 08-19-2014, 06:58 PM

Which PF Condenser's... (size and manufacturer please) are recommended for these modifications on the W123s? Thanks.

engatwork · #24 08-19-2014, 08:08 PM

This is the type I used. Had to make up some hoses and it worked out pretty well.

condenser

RavenTBK · #25 08-19-2014, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dennislarock

Which PF Condenser's... (size and manufacturer please) are recommended for these modifications on the W123s? Thanks.

Basically, its any 16x20, with #6 and #8 connections. Personally, I got mine from fleabay. Amazon usually has them too, but fleabay was a bit cheaper for the same chinese sourced part.

New 16" x 20" Parallel Flow Universal Condenser Aluminum O Ring 6 and 8 | eBay

leathermang · #26 08-19-2014, 10:33 PM

Even these multipiston mounted sideways compressors are extreme working conditions for a bracket.
If you are having any problems with nuts getting loose... use RED locktite on the clean threads when you put them together.
This is the ' stud and bearing mount' tube... it only adds about 5 ft lbs of torque to getting them off.... a split washer does nothing after a half turn has been lost...
I have been using red locktite on everything EXCEPT really large nuts.. like the rear crank nut on a Volkswagon air cooled engine.... 200 ft lbs of torque and lots of surface area... that would be a problem.... but small nut and bolts... magic...
Also.. if any bolt breaks... try to find the cause ... but CHANGE to GRADE 8 replacement...
Someone needs to make an idler bracket for these belts that are stretching so much... spring loaded.... won't matter how much they stretch...

RavenTBK · #27 08-19-2014, 10:51 PM

I guess I should update the thread with my results. Part of my problem was swinging it up..the hard lines were installed at such an angle they contacted the oil cooler lines before it'd swing enough to reach. A bit of gentle pressure was enough to pivot them enough to swing and make some room to reach those bolts with a universal joint. I snugged them down real nice with a replacement proper metal locknut. I also noted that several other attachments were of odd hardware, so I'm thinking the shop dumped it all out of my boxes, and pieced together whatever would work with what they could find.

I replaced all the oddball nuts with proper metal lockers.

Now I'm working on tracking down the source of the other issue I had been experiencing.... 50-60* vent temps at idle and low speed, but warms to ambient air at >60mph, and re-cools as I slow down. Putting gauges on her shows proper low/high side pressures at idle, and proper low but slightly elevated high side (250-275psi) at high RPM. I'm not inclined to think its the expansion valve as the low side isnt being "sucked down" from a restriction, but then again, everything firewall forward is new, so that is basically all that is left that I am aware of. Company mechanic advises me its likely overcharged with the high side going up that much, but according to charts, 45-55psi on the low side is what is specified for these temps. I see other posters saying things like 300-350psi and higher on the high, so I dunno.

For reference:
Ambient 98*F
Idle speed Low: 55psi
Idle Speed High: 220psi
High speed low: 50psi
High speed high: 275psi