On an OM617 L5 diesel, can a MW injector pump replace a M style?
If so what are the difference and what is needed to do the swap?
Thanks russ

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Thanks RussK
Younger than some.... older than others.

Just saying a 617 is not enough.

The M type can replace the MW type on the non-turbo 617s but there is several Throttle Linkage Setups used over the Years and the Linkages also depend on what Transmission you have.

I don't know if there is M type Fuel Injection Pumps setup for a 617 with a Turbo.

The M type Fuel Injection Pump has O-rings that will eventually leak on them so I don't see an advantage to them over the MW ones unless you plan to send the Pump off to be modified to put out extra Fuel. Apparenlty the M has stronger innards to allow for that.

The Fuel Supply/Lift Pump is also different on the M Types and I am not sure if the Fuel Lines are a direct swap.
That may also be the same with the Fuel Injection Hard Lines.

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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

I assume you mean a non turbo OM617 and that when you say M style you mean the M pump with the RSF governor.

(Sorry to sound like a pedantic so and so but there are subtle differences that might trip you up)

There are indeed slight difference in the throttle linkages but that's not half the trouble.

Not from the factory but I've heard rumours of people jazzing up the M/RSF pump for turbos (needs larger elements to get more fuel)

I think most people like the less complicated RSF governor rather than the pump (but I could be wrong about that)

I'm pretty sure the fuel injection hard lines are the same.

The fuel pump is different and can be seen in this thread =>

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/294499-refreshing-fuel-pump-om617-european-spec-%96-non-turbo.html

The fuel supply lines are of the same size.

############


Right:- the main differences are shown in the FSM =>

http://www.startekinfo.com/StarTek/outside/12265/disc_2/program/Engine/615/07-200.pdf

Important difference #1

The M/RSF pump gets its engine oil for lubrication from the intermediate shaft (much like the other pumps) but it also returns the oil via this route too.

The MW pump has a return line that runs from the side of the IP (shown in this picture)



It is the bit running horizontally behind the lift / fuel pump

This connection goes to the side of the block and squirts onto the timing chain (well it probably dribbles near to the timing chain) at the 3 o'clock position on the timing device (if you stand in front of the engine looking at it).

Because of the differences in oil feed to the MW pump it might be prudent to make sure you have the right bits in the intermediate shaft - if you use the old (M/RSF) parts make sure you are actually getting oil supplied to the MW IP => it would be a bugger if the holes for the supply didn't line up between the two systems.


Important difference #2


The M/RSF pump isn't really ideal for high altitude driving - it does not have an ADA

The MW pump more commonly does have one of these (and the turbo version of this is called the ALDA - similar bit of kit to the ADA but has a connection to sense turbo boost and it helps to get the governor at adjust for this)



The more trivial differences can be seen in the FSM chapter I linked.

__________________
1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!

Pictures of MW IPs here with links to other places

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/306090-papas-got-brand-new-om617-ip-play.html

__________________
1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!

NA motors will smoke with the added fuel an MW provides... it can be made to work though. ..

__________________
John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread
"as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do!

My drivers:
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!!

1987 300TD
1987 300TD
1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere!

Good point.

For the sake of clarity.

IPs fitted to non turbo OM617 engines

(Listed in the FSM link given earlier)

1) M/RSF

and

2) MW (with smaller elements that the turbo MW IP)




IPs fitted to turbo OM617a engines

Only MW (with larger elements than the non turbo MW IP)


As similar chapter in the TURBO section of the FSM lists the MW pump numbers used.


Check and compare the part numbers - but as you are going from M/RSF (I assume) to MW you still need to think about that intermediate shaft oil supply problem.

__________________
1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!

I was always under the impression that both M and MW have 5.5mm elements and the only basic difference is that the MW is tuned to give more fuel as boost comes up.

Bit confused about the oil line on the MW - thought it was the supply? And the engines with M pumps had the supply inside the shaft (or something ) Got me buggered anyway. Maybe I should undo the banjo bolt with the engine running and see if oil squirts out.

Since I have a .952 (turbo, in car) and a .912 (NA, sitting in garage awaiting new purpose) I can tell you that the injection lines are a different shape but could be bent I guess.

The MW "throttle" linkage allows the lever at the pump to go backwards to shutoff vs the separate lever for M fitted engines, at least that's what I can tell.

FWIW the MW pumps were fitted on all North American market 616/617 diesels (don't know about the 115 chassis though). So there are versions that were designed for NA engines. Somehow one of the pumps made it to NZ and is in a 300D my mechanic is selling.

__________________
1978 300D, 373,000km 617.912, 711.113 5 speed, 7.5mm superpump, HX30W turbo...many, many years in the making....
1977 280> 300D - 500,000km+ (to be sold...)
1984 240TD>300TD 121,000 miles, *gone*
1977 250 parts car
1988 Toyota Corona 2.0D *gone*
1975 FJ45>HJ45
1981 200>240D (to be sold...)
1999 Hyundai Lantra 1.6 *gone*
1980s Lansing Bagnall FOER 5.2 Forklift (the Mk2 engine hoist)
2001 Holden Rodeo 4JB1T 2WD

I don't know about the m or mv designation, but the euro 300D that I used to have utilized different hard lines and different linkage. It came from an 83 model.

It lives on in Greazzer's car.

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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

The reason I was asking is because my m style pump is dead on a OM617 N/A , and a member here has a MW style that is also N/A.
There is a lot more differences between the two than I had thought.
I appreciate all the info.

__________________
Thanks RussK
Younger than some.... older than others.

If you can live with no cruise control (because of the linkage differences) I suspect the hard lines could be re-bent to fit.

__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

The FSM says it is supply too - that got me looking at the oil pressure circuit in chapter 18-005 in the turbo section and comparing that with the non turbo one. It looks like that is also one of the differences between the turbo and non turbo engines as well.

Turbo chapter

http://www.startekinfo.com/StarTek/outside/12265/disc_2/program/Engine/617/18-005.pdf

Non turbo chapter

http://www.startekinfo.com/StarTek/outside/12265/disc_2/program/Engine/615/18-005.pdf

To make the MW pump work you need an extra connection between the intermediate shaft and the oil path way to a point next to the outer side of the block - I'm not sure if all blocks are going to have this...

__________________
1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!

Aha...good to have confirmation, cheers

If I were the OP I would tap into the oil filter cap centre shaft, and block the bottom, which formerly would've been returning the finer bypass filter oil back to the sump.

__________________
1978 300D, 373,000km 617.912, 711.113 5 speed, 7.5mm superpump, HX30W turbo...many, many years in the making....
1977 280> 300D - 500,000km+ (to be sold...)
1984 240TD>300TD 121,000 miles, *gone*
1977 250 parts car
1988 Toyota Corona 2.0D *gone*
1975 FJ45>HJ45
1981 200>240D (to be sold...)
1999 Hyundai Lantra 1.6 *gone*
1980s Lansing Bagnall FOER 5.2 Forklift (the Mk2 engine hoist)
2001 Holden Rodeo 4JB1T 2WD

Why would you want to remove the fine filtering capability of the filter assembly?

__________________
1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!

Better just to find the right pump. They are available used for very reasonable prices since they about cannot be worn out.

__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

You're not, just rerouting the bypass return via the injection pump. Only way to get filtered oil without drilling into cast iron (no turbo to put a tee in its supply line). Drilling the outside of the oil filter housing will get you unfiltered oil. Sorry for not explaining right

That's why OP wants to swap an MW pump. I can't disagree with you because I'm in the wrong country , but from what I've read the M pumps are highly sought after and rare. They were never used in North America except on imported Euro cars, and they're popular for souping up with bigger elements .

__________________
1978 300D, 373,000km 617.912, 711.113 5 speed, 7.5mm superpump, HX30W turbo...many, many years in the making....
1977 280> 300D - 500,000km+ (to be sold...)
1984 240TD>300TD 121,000 miles, *gone*
1977 250 parts car
1988 Toyota Corona 2.0D *gone*
1975 FJ45>HJ45
1981 200>240D (to be sold...)
1999 Hyundai Lantra 1.6 *gone*
1980s Lansing Bagnall FOER 5.2 Forklift (the Mk2 engine hoist)
2001 Holden Rodeo 4JB1T 2WD