Do you have to take flywheel and back plate off - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

yuke · #1 04-14-2015, 02:47 AM

Do you have to take the flywheel and back 1 1/2" plate off to mount engine on a stand or can you lave them on and mount to the plate. Seems like the weight of the engine could break the plate if mounting to it instead of to the rear of the block. Just do'nt want to break the f.w. lose cause I'd need 12 new bolts for flywheel.

Dan Stokes · #2 04-14-2015, 08:43 AM

Again if you check my build thread you'll see that I removed my plate (I think I called it the "intermediate plate" but I have no clue what Mercedes calls it) before mounting the engine. It's pretty straightforward to remove but keep track of the bolts.

The mount system that I used is shown in the pics, IIRC. I just wasn't comfortable with putting all that much stress on the plate in a plane that it wasn't designed for (it's meant to be sandwiched between the block and the trans). Besides, that allows you to really clean the darn thing - mine wasn't easy to clean and was sincerely grubby. I ended up taking it to the machine shop and had them use their super-duper parts cleaning cabinet. They also did the upper pan and some other bits.

Dan

charmalu · #3 04-14-2015, 10:18 AM

When I mounted one of my 617 engines, I removed the plate/FW also and mounted
the block to the engine stand, As Dan said, that is a lot of weight hanging on that
aluminum plate.

I know you are trying to cut cost with this engine swap, and those FW Bolt are a bit pricy.
When I did my 4-spd swap, I bought 12 new ones. Then 22K miles later found a 300D FW.
Swapped in the new FW, and bought 12 more new one`s. Just the thought of...what if?
I could have squeaked by with the old Bolts, but the thought of them being torqued, and then the additional 90deg of torque
made me uneasy.

Like they say. "An ounce of prevention, is worth a pound of cure".

In your other thread on replacing the Crank Seal, I posted a couple links, one was where I got my FW bolts.
here is the Dealer I got them from. When I bought them they were $4.80 ea, now $5.00, and that is the wholesale price for manual FW Bolts.
I don`t know the Auto FW part#, if you find it, put it into this sites search for price.

Mercedes Benz SCREW - 6150320571

Forget E-Bay, I saw one guy selling them for $12.00 ea.

Charlie

Stretch · #4 04-14-2015, 01:22 PM

I've had a whole engine hanging on an adapter plate spaced out with nuts and washers for several years - I can't see anything wrong with the adapter plate yet!

If you are not keen on hanging an engine this way then perhaps putting it on a low work bench strapped to blocks of wood is an option? I mean if you don't want to remove the flywheel then I guess you're not going to remove the crank and perhaps not even bother looking at the bottom end of the engine so I'm guessing you don't need to flip it upside down (which in my experience is the only benefit to having an engine dangling on an engine stand for any length of time)...

yuke · #5 04-14-2015, 02:19 PM

Thanks for replies D.S.,Charmalu, and stretch fror the info. And site where to buy the f.w. bolts if needed yes I can them from benz wholesale for $4/piece #1109900419 for my auto. Stretch are you saying you hung the engine from the aluminum intermediate plate or another adapter plate from some other source? I would only hang it for a short time basically to clean better before install if I wanted to really look at the bottom end yes I would take f.w.off and mount to block which is what I will do with the spare engine I have that I lost the oil cooler hose on. I guess the message is if going to hang from the plate do so at your own risk for fear of breaking the aluminum plate 500 lbs. is a lot of weight to be hanging on that plate that is 1 1/2" thick. Might get 12 of those f.w. bolts for $50. Probably should find a 12mm 12 point socket also instead of using a wrench. Thanks all

charmalu · #6 04-14-2015, 02:43 PM

Another reason I think I also did not use the Adaptor plate, is that the arms for my Engine Stand were not long enough.
As it was I had to do some fiddling with spacers, and adapting arms to get it to work.

The Plate may be strong enough to hold the engine, I just didn`t feel confident using it.

You could place a 2x4 or??? for a brace to rest the end of the engine on to take off some of the weight.
Or a Chain Fall, Come Along to a rafter also.

You are smart to get the 12mm 12point 1/2" drive Socket for the FW Bolts.
Not a lot of meat on the bolt heads to grab onto, be sure to be square on when tightening.

Charlie

Stretch · #7 04-16-2015, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yuke

... Stretch are you saying you hung the engine from the aluminum intermediate plate or another adapter plate from some other source?...

Yep the bit that is bolted to the block (behind the flywheel) that is also the bit that connects to the transmission casing. I used the holes in this bit to connect directly to the engine stand. (By the sound of it mine has longer spider arms than Charmalu's)

yuke · #8 04-16-2015, 12:07 PM

Oh ok stretch so you left the flywheel on and mounted to the 1 1/2" aluminum intermediate plate thats in between the block and trans. Im not sure if I will do this yet but if I do I will make sure to not leave it on there for too long and would try to give it some extra support in front as to take some od the weight off it as I realize that it is much better to mount right to rear of block just did not want to crack the f.w. bolts lose or the extra expense of 12 new bolts. Question on the f.w. bolts it is mentioned that if they are measured and found to be in spec they can be reused where do you measure from and would a ruler do cause I dont know if my micrometer will open up that wide if measureing from tip to tip.

charmalu · #9 04-16-2015, 12:40 PM

Here is some good pictures I Ran across of a 617 on an engine stand.

Google can be your friend.

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/2243706-post1.html

This is post#1, the thread can be brought up in the top right corner.

Charlie

Stretch · #10 04-16-2015, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charmalu

Here is some good pictures I Ran across of a 617 on an engine stand.

Google can be your friend.

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/2243706-post1.html

This is post#1, the thread can be brought up in the top right corner.

Charlie

Yep that's more or less how my engine was

Quote:

Originally Posted by yuke

Oh ok stretch so you left the flywheel on and mounted to the 1 1/2" aluminum intermediate plate thats in between the block and trans. Im not sure if I will do this yet but if I do I will make sure to not leave it on there for too long and would try to give it some extra support in front as to take some od the weight off it as I realize that it is much better to mount right to rear of block just did not want to crack the f.w. bolts lose or the extra expense of 12 new bolts. Question on the f.w. bolts it is mentioned that if they are measured and found to be in spec they can be reused where do you measure from and would a ruler do cause I dont know if my micrometer will open up that wide if measureing from tip to tip.

I think you are probably best off supporting the front too for extra insurance - it can't hurt right?

Still if you aren't going to mess about with the bottom end I wouldn't even bother with a stand.

Frank Reiner · #11 04-16-2015, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yuke

Oh ok stretch so you left the flywheel on and mounted to the 1 1/2" aluminum intermediate plate thats in between the block and trans. Im not sure if I will do this yet but if I do I will make sure to not leave it on there for too long and would try to give it some extra support in front as to take some od the weight off it as I realize that it is much better to mount right to rear of block just did not want to crack the f.w. bolts lose or the extra expense of 12 new bolts. Question on the f.w. bolts it is mentioned that if they are measured and found to be in spec they can be reused where do you measure from and would a ruler do cause I dont know if my micrometer will open up that wide if measureing from tip to tip.

The FW bolts have a necked down section that is intentionally stretched when the bolt is tightened. When that section is stretched, its diameter is slightly reduced. As long as the diameter of the stretch section is greater than the minimum service limit the bolt may be reused.
New diameter:__7.7/7.5 mm
Min. diameter:__7.3 mm
A thread micrometer or sharp edged dial/digital calipers are recommended.

DeliveryValve · #12 04-16-2015, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yuke

...Stretch are you saying you hung the engine from the aluminum intermediate plate or another adapter plate from some other source? I would only hang it for a short time basically to clean better before install if I wanted to really look at the bottom end yes I would take f.w.off and mount to block which is what I will do with the spare engine I have that I lost the oil cooler hose on.

You can mount it via the intermediate plate. The only thing you couldn't do is to flip the engine over as mounting it this way made it top heavy. If you need to flip it over, remove the plate and flywheel, and mount it directly to the block.

.

charmalu · #13 04-16-2015, 10:34 PM

This picture Dan?

Thumbnails

Charlie

Dan Stokes · #14 04-17-2015, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charmalu

This picture Dan?

Thumbnails

Charlie

Yep Charlie! That's the one. You clearly have superior 'puter skills to mine (not hard to do). That's a gear head stand (has a rotater) and it came with those long arms for reasons unknown - but I was glad to have them for this job.

Dan

Frank Reiner · #15 04-16-2015, 05:41 PM

Here's an engine support method that has served well; this pic is of the RH side of an M110.
Remove the aluminum arm, et, voila!