Announcement; I'm an idiot... What damage have I done then? No axle circlip nor shim - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

TnBob · #16 11-13-2015, 02:31 PM

There are a number of quite good half axle replacement threads here that fully explain the hows and why of shim / c clip replacement.

fahrvergnugen · #17 11-13-2015, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leathermang

Did you mean to ask if they can be Reused after this inspection ?
How much do they cost ?
Is it worth taking a chance on them leaking to save that much ?
I do not know how much they cost....

Yes; what, 15 bux ea or so? Yeah, possibly, I got laid off.

I finally got into the EPC, and I see that there are different sizes spacers in two different spots, part spots 115 and 65... I ASSume that 65 is the only one to be concerned about?

As for other threads on the spacing importance, I will search those out. My download time is worse than dial-up, tethering this laptop to a droid for a connection. 2-3 mins on each page sometimes.

leathermang · #18 11-13-2015, 03:47 PM

I only got off dial up four years ago.... I understand that.... 12 years on dial up.... yikes..

I seem to remember when I did mine... that I swore that I would construct some type of ' press' to push against the end of the half shaft ... to get it into the housing to where I could get the shims and circlip on... a new springy axle seal seemed at the time to be messing with me....
I do remember swearing that I would not try to take out the half shafts with the Third Member installed in the car....
If you have any way to get the car high enough to drop the third member down to give the distance needed to withdraw ... AND REPLACE... the half shafts from it... highly recommended..

WARNING.... at least some half shafts are NOT SUPPOSED to be allowed to ' fall '... the ends need to be supported like a new born's head... extreme travel of the ends may cause damage according to the note which came with my axles...

I did a lot of swearing during that torture... I mean project...

fahrvergnugen · #19 11-13-2015, 04:08 PM

Good thoughts, thank you. I appreciate your train of thought, and did the last time I was on here with any frequency...

I did install the axles with the third member in place, but that was on a lift. I'm on the ground this time too. We shall see how this goes...

I see there are 10-12 different sizes on the shims, I bet they are expensive for what they are, and with the cost combined... Might have to put up with the irritating vibration for a bit yet.

DeliveryValve · #20 11-13-2015, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leathermang

.....
If you have any way to get the car high enough to drop the third member down to give the distance needed to withdraw ... AND REPLACE... the half shafts from it... highly recommended..

.....

I find it's actually the other way around. You want the diff and subframe at it's highest point into the chassis and have the trailing arms drop as low as possible. Then you can sneak the axle ends out and to the side of the hub structure.

To fahrvergnugen, once you pull the axle out and the splines have visible or measured (compared to the other axle) wear on the, it is most likely the diff is jacked also.

.

leathermang · #21 11-13-2015, 04:41 PM

I think dropping the third member down to get the clearance is one method mentioned in the FSM.... since I had so much trouble not doing that... is why I will drop it the next time..
ONE BIG problem... is that those axles both have to fit into SPLINED holes...
thus if you do not have the wheels up off the ground... a 1000th of an inch off can be a huge problem.
I had a helper hitting on the end of a 12 FOOT one inch BRASS ROD.... the biggest brass ' drift' you ever saw.... with a sledge hammer... me with my hands trying to hold the end of the axle in place to get it to go into those splines on the wheel hub....

fahrvergnugen · #22 11-13-2015, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeliveryValve

To fahrvergnugen, once you pull the axle out and the splines have visible or measured (compared to the other axle) wear on the, it is most likely the diff is jacked also.

.

Agreed... As for your details of removal, this is what I remembered when I did it last.

97 SL320 · #23 11-13-2015, 05:33 PM

For differentials in general, the clips are there to prevent the axle from coming out of the side gears / axle seals. While not optimal, I would not consider a missing clip to cause any damage as long as the axle didn't slip out too far. ( No seal leak = axle not coming out too far. )

Some diffs ( in general ) use bolt on axle stubs and no clip at all on the side gears. Some cars even used spring loaded inner joints to keep things together.

By all means, get the clip back in there as you can't rely on the axle just staying put. The shims sound like a method to reduce backlash but I'd have to see a picture.

Stretch · #24 11-14-2015, 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 97 SL320

... The shims sound like a method to reduce backlash but I'd have to see a picture.

They are - they push the cogs together to change the torque needed to turn them.

I have a link to pictures of these bits in a W201 differential if you're interested

97 SL320 · #25 11-14-2015, 08:47 AM

Is this a limited slip diff?

In either case, pics would be helpful.

Stretch · #26 11-14-2015, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 97 SL320

Is this a limited slip diff?

In either case, pics would be helpful.

Nope not limited slip.

Mercedes are pretty cheap - they do things like ASR if you're lucky!

These are simple open differentials

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/344307-w201-differential-refresh-thread.html

vwnate1 · #27 11-14-2015, 09:50 AM

Lots of good info here .

I'd get that C clip back in place ASAP , new gear oil too just to be safe .

leathermang · #28 11-14-2015, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stretch

They are - they push the cogs together to change the torque needed to turn them.....

Could you expand upon that description ?

97 SL320 · #29 11-14-2015, 05:24 PM

As I suspected, the diff is built up like any other.

A missing clip won't cause damage to the diff or splines, the clip is there to prevent the inner axle joint from sliding out of the housing.

Based on the pics, any shims are between gears and housing ( like any other diff.) so unless you pulled the center pin and took the small diff gears out, you didn't lose any shims. For most ( all ? ) diffs, the shims are more of a wear plate and not a select thickness to change things like back lash. They could be but that isn't common and some make thick shims to make a short lived limited slip.

leathermang · #30 11-14-2015, 06:09 PM

I agree.
I think any deleterious effects would be confined to the axle seals... as in and out movement would be combined with circular motion to potentially wear out the seals faster than desired..... assuming of course that the outward pull due to movement of the wheel hub is not so extreme that the inside axle could be pulled completely out of the axle...
I do not believe that Stretch's visualization is correct.