Cut open Mann PF1055 - Page 4 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Diesel911 · #46 05-04-2019, 10:02 PM

This is the company that has the paper towel type elements.

Gulf Coast Filters, Inc. Specializing in Bypass Oil filters, Fuel filters, Hydraulic filters and Custom filtering

Not that Gulf Coast and Frantz (which is still being made) sell elements for their filters. That would be a way to go if you are worried about common toilet paper.

spock505 · #47 05-05-2019, 06:40 AM

I suspect we are jumping to the wrong conclusions as to the nature and or purpose of the material in question, mechanics would have reported clogged pick-up meshes long ago with resulting engines starved of oil.

Having used these filters for years, I have never seen the above or any hint of debris either in pick-up or pan itself.

Mxfrank · #48 05-05-2019, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spock505

I suspect we are jumping to the wrong conclusions as to the nature and or purpose of the material in question, mechanics would have reported clogged pick-up meshes long ago with resulting engines starved of oil.

Having used these filters for years, I have never seen the above or any hint of debris either in pick-up or pan itself.

You beg the question of whether this design works at all.

If the bypass section was working efficiently, you would expect it to look like the photo in post 41 of this thread. You would also expect the oil to be cleaner, and not look like liquid darkness. But neither seems to be the case. The surprising thing about the photos in post 1 isn't the twigs and chaff, it's that the bypass element is so clean. It's gray and fluffy, not black and oily. By contrast, the full flow section is packed with nasty soot.

I'm of the opinion that the bypass section is poorly designed and ends up being ineffective. It may be because insufficient flow is routed through this section, or it may be that the protective "landscape" paper clogs and blocks flow. The reason sicks and bugs "work" in the bypass section is that the bypass section doesn't work. Only the little full flow section at the bottom is doing anything of value.

JHZR2 · #49 05-06-2019, 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spock505

I suspect we are jumping to the wrong conclusions as to the nature and or purpose of the material in question, mechanics would have reported clogged pick-up meshes long ago with resulting engines starved of oil.

Having used these filters for years, I have never seen the above or any hint of debris either in pick-up or pan itself.

First off, there was no real question upfront. As I stated before, we have known for a long time that many of the filters are packed with this sort of media. There is no international incident here just because I opened up a new one and posted the pics.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mxfrank

You beg the question of whether this design works at all.

If the bypass section was working efficiently, you would expect it to look like the photo in post 41 of this thread. You would also expect the oil to be cleaner, and not look like liquid darkness. But neither seems to be the case. The surprising thing about the photos in post 1 isn't the twigs and chaff, it's that the bypass element is so clean. It's gray and fluffy, not black and oily. By contrast, the full flow section is packed with nasty soot.

I'm of the opinion that the bypass section is poorly designed and ends up being ineffective. It may be because insufficient flow is routed through this section, or it may be that the protective "landscape" paper clogs and blocks flow. The reason sicks and bugs "work" in the bypass section is that the bypass section doesn't work. Only the little full flow section at the bottom is doing anything of value.

I agree; nobody knows if it truly works at all. I suppose someone with good metal working skills could be brave, cut open one of these, remove media, and then do an oil analysis one cycle with the media, one without...

The reality is that these old IDI engines load a lot of soot in the oil, and so perhaps this may help... May not as well.

But the other reality is that it takes a very miniscule fraction of soot to make the oil black as can be. Put new oil in, start the car and idle it for a minute, then check the dipstick - its pretty black then, with no appreciable soot loaded.

That said, your final paragraph somewhat misses the mark, IMO. It may be ineffective, but that's not the role or function of the "landscape" fabric outer separator (which should be designed for maximum flow as the depth of the packing should be doing the filtering). Sticks and bugs neither do or dont work. They are just there. The only effect is an absolutely tiny reduction in the number of dense-packed fibers, and equally minimal volume in that part of the element that has the dense packed fibers.

BTW the Baldwin P102 is dual pleated media IIRC.

Diesel911 · #50 05-06-2019, 10:22 AM

We need to get someone that has added a commercially made bypass oil filter to their system to comment on the Oil Color.

With the Frantz or my homemade filter housing with the string wound filter the Oil still turned black as it did with the stock oil filter.

JHZR2 · #51 05-06-2019, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diesel911

We need to get someone that has added a commercially made bypass oil filter to their system to comment on the Oil Color.

With the Frantz or my homemade filter housing with the string wound filter the Oil still turned black as it did with the stock oil filter.

Agree. Someone somewhere has experience.

Spot is like carbon black. It takes very little to affect color, so not sure color is a good determinant. The carbon is likely tiny, tiny particles. The oil add pack also is designed to keep those tiny particles dispersed vs aggregated.

I suspect that soot loading percentages would be a better metric. But data all the same is essential.

OM617YOTA · #52 05-06-2019, 01:51 PM

If someone daily drives one of these engines consistently and services their oil at a regular interval is willing to do a UOA and compare results with one of the cotton field mowing filters and either Baldwin P102 or Hastings LF380, I'd chip in for it.

I don't drive my truck regularly enough to make my engine a good candidate. Also, with the cost of a UOA being 80% the cost of an oil and filter change, I just..........change my oil.

ah-kay · #53 05-06-2019, 04:08 PM

Much to do about nothing. I don't care what is stuffed in there as long as it does the job. My concern is the filtering spec and the replacement interval. The spec is beyond my control but I can look it up. The interval is my responsibility.

JHZR2 · #54 05-06-2019, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ah-kay

Much to do about nothing. I don't care what is stuffed in there as long as it does the job. My concern is the filtering spec and the replacement interval. The spec is beyond my control but I can look it up. The interval is my responsibility.

Agree; this was intended to be very much "for fun" just because I wanted to see the stuff myself..

IIRC its either 17 or 32 micron, per the wix website; one of those values is for the 617 the other for the 603, I think...

Wix website at least has a number. Where else would you look it up?

chronometers · #55 05-07-2019, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHZR2

Agree; this was intended to be very much "for fun" just because I wanted to see the stuff myself..

IIRC its either 17 or 32 micron, per the wix website; one of those values is for the 617 the other for the 603, I think...

Wix website at least has a number. Where else would you look it up?

Agree, it is interesting. I'm going to stick with MB OEM filters or MANN and change oil within the recommended OCI. The MB filters should be manufactured to meet the spec. required.

Diesel911 · #56 05-07-2019, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHZR2

Agree; this was intended to be very much "for fun" just because I wanted to see the stuff myself..

IIRC its either 17 or 32 micron, per the wix website; one of those values is for the 617 the other for the 603, I think...

Wix website at least has a number. Where else would you look it up?

You can go to the Baldwin site. Baldwin and Hastings are part of the same company and the filters for the 617.952 are the same and were made in the USA.

777funk · #57 05-07-2019, 01:02 PM

Maybe they know something we don't about filtering. Still that doesn't look good. I wonder about WIX filters.

chronometers · #58 05-07-2019, 01:15 PM

Worrying about filters is misplaced worry imho.

If it is MB OEM, you are good. Go on to the next item requiring attention on your vehicle.

Zulfiqar · #59 05-07-2019, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chronometers

Worrying about filters is misplaced worry imho.

If it is MB OEM, you are good. Go on to the next item requiring attention on your vehicle.

Cant say better than that.

spock505 · #60 05-07-2019, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHZR2

First off, there was no real question upfront. As I stated before, we have known for a long time that many of the filters are packed with this sort of media. There is no international incident here just because I opened up a new one and posted the pics.

The overall inference is that this stuff is either a) no good or b) filter makers are being cheap skates by using such media - this is the overwhelming takeaway from anyone reading these threads.

Your original s a good one as it provokes comment, however those comments were more to the side of 'floor shavings' and such without any real evidence.

Without intervention it will just go around in circles without conclusion, plus I have just contacted Virgil to ask him what type of filter is fitted to Thunderbird 4