All the intervention that I needed was to open and compare the "cotton gin" filters to the Turkish-made Fram. I had no trouble drawing a conclusion as to which option I was going to use going forward. And I didn't need to contact Virgil.

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When cryptography is outlawed, bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl.

Asked permission before posting the below reply from MANN+HUMMEL UK, appreciate the detailed response - thank you.

The section highlighted relates mainly to concerns over filter media.

MANN+HUMMEL have also provided a contact email address for future use.

UK.INFO@mann-hummel.com


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Good Afternoon

Thank you for your enquiry.

I hope my answer below will alleviate any concerns over this part and MANN-FILTER parts in general.

First, a brief comment on MANN+HUMMEL / MANN-FILTER. M+H supply as original fit (OEM) to the vast majority of vehicle assemblers, across multiple divisions (car, commercial vehicle, industrial and off-highway). The MANN-FILTER brand is identical in every way to the OEM parts we supply (we do not downgrade the MANN-FILTER aftermarket parts), the MF parts come from the same assembly lines at the same manufacturing plants – they are just branded with our own MANN-FILTER brand for aftermarket purposes. For filters where we are not the OEM supplier, we then benchmark the OEM filter via very stringent laboratory tests and ensure our version meets or exceeds the OE specification. As a company, we do not sell a part that is not able to reach this OEM standard. Lastly, if we have no option to manufacture an equivalent, we would source via the OEM supplier themselves, thus ensuring 100% OEM specification for all of our Aftermarket parts.

For the part in question, please note the filter is now obsolete, and was replaced by PF 1055/1 x (there is also a PF 1055/1 n with a different gasket for different applications).

The ‘filter media’ discussed/shown on the images is actually part of two types of filtration in this item. The filter does have a cellulose media (the ‘ribbed’ section that is common in most types of similar filter) and also in this particular filter, a cotton type (or referred to as ‘un-clean cotton’) media. This is then where the forums visual assessment falls down. This cotton media can actually withstand higher pressures due to the extra thickness of material, and can hence also offer a higher dust holding capacity for a similar area compared to cellulose. So, to meet the OEM requirements for this part, the filter utilises both types of media for the full-flow and bypass areas, and thus achieves the correct high level of filtration efficiency and service life/dirt holding capacity.

Whilst I can see how to the untrained eye the cotton does look low quality, the truth (and proven via laboratory tests) is quite different. Although I cannot pass the information on, my colleagues in Germany sent me the test report for this filter, with the filtration efficiency listed – I can assure you that the filter (and both media types) are optimum in their performance.

As ever, the internet can be a great source of useful information – but it can also be very misleading and full of ill-informed opinions that are taken as fact. I hope the information above is of use and has helped in some way.

Thank you for using MANN-FILTER products, and for asking us for ‘our side’ of the argument!

Best Regards

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David


1996 Mercedes S124 E300TD - 129k - rolling restoration project -

1998 Mercedes W210 300TD - 118k (assimilated into above vehicle)

I will continue to use Mann or MB filters. Mann is also spec'd by Amsoil as well for extended OCIs so....enough said.

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-- Chris

'95 E300, 216k miles, Silver Surfer
'05 E320 CDI, 138k miles
'07 S550 4matic, 69k miles

Gone but not forgotten:

'76 300D, 350k miles?, SOLD in 1995
'75 240D, 300k miles, SOLD in 1991

Notice how they said everything but did not give up the info you wanted.

What was said intentionally tells you how you are un-informed/miss-informed but then does not give you the info so that you would be informed.

The worst part making company will tell you that their parts meet or exceed the factory specs.

This is what should have been said. Than you for your interest in Mann Filters. My Colleges sent me the Specs on the filter you mentioned and here are the specs: xxxxxxxx

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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

as said - the media works good no matter if it has dead ants in it, I have seen wood dust as filter media too and it works too - which is proven by these engines working for a very long time.

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2012 BMW X5 (Beef + Granite suspension model)

1995 E300D - The original humming machine (consumed by Flood 2017)
2000 E320 - The evolution (consumed by flood 2017)

Thank you Spock for collecting + passing on that info.

The rocks/sticks/bugs/cotton field mowings in the filter never bothered me. I'm well aware that this media is fully capable of filtering to a set spec. Some filters use sawdust - again, just fine with me.

It also doesn't bother me that MANN has declined to pass on the exact specs. This may be contractual with MBZ, or it may be as simple as not wanting to give other filter manufacturers a leg up on the filtration specs. Let them do their own lab testing on OEM filters.

My only problem with these filters is that some of these contaminants can escape the filter and get into the oil system of my engine. Nothing MANN said changes what I've seen with my own eyes.

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617 swapped Toyota Pickup, 22-24 MPG, 50k miles on swap

Post number 32 has past information on the particle size filter out by the full flow sections of the Oil Filter for 617.952

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/247597-napa-gold-filters-3.html

This is what Baldwin (Hastings sent me and is in the above thread)
Baldwin -
Full flow section 18 microns (This is the smallest particles filtered out by any of the full flow sections of all of the filters. The Mahle filter is the next closet at full flow section 22 microns.)


By pass section is 15 microns This is the only filter company that actually knows what the bypass section can do.

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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

I don't buy that for a second. Not willing to share =/= doesn't know. There are good reasons for withholding this information.

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617 swapped Toyota Pickup, 22-24 MPG, 50k miles on swap

Diesel911, you are jumping to conclusions. My question related to the media used, not to filter performance.

Also bear in mind the reply above was just that, a reply by email which wasn't originally drafted for publication or such scrutiny.

Personally, very pleased with the response which leaves me in no doubt of the quality behind MANN filters.

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David


1996 Mercedes S124 E300TD - 129k - rolling restoration project -

1998 Mercedes W210 300TD - 118k (assimilated into above vehicle)

We all get to believe what we want.

Why would a filter company give the filtration level of the full flow section but not the bypass section of the filter? Why would the other part be canceled. Especially if they actually know how well the bypass section performs.

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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

I am thinking that the average person that owns a Mercedes is more likely to change the Oil on a regular basis then those who buy US Gassers. And, what Oil to use is well argued over in this forum. I don't think may argue over which Oil to put into a midsized US Car with the same voracity.

I think Mercedes owners are more likely to do other maintenance and it is clear they are more likely to buy OE or OEM parts.

In fact Mercedes owners seem to be rather obsessive concerning their Cars.

It just means that there are many variable factors concerning longevity.

I think there is also design features that help also. The 617.952's have a high Oil volume and pressure passing through them and those Oil Nozzles that spray Oil up into the Pistons and Cylinders. That plentiful oil has to reduce wear.

I believe the Ball Pins once heated up allow the Injectors to function for a longer amount of miles before symptoms show up that it is time for the Injectors to be rebuilt then similar Injectors in other types of combustion chambers.

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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

Already answered:

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617 swapped Toyota Pickup, 22-24 MPG, 50k miles on swap

Of it could be that the data sheet does not have a place for 2 stage filter data. Most engines don't have a 2 stage filter so any additional filtration is a benefit.

I wonder how many that fuss over the bypass filter would think nothing of burning waste motor oil / transmission fluid or some other homemade slop.

[QUOTE=97 SL320;3918674]Of it could be that the data sheet does not have a place for 2 stage filter data. Most engines don't have a 2 stage filter so any additional filtration is a benefit.

I wonder how many that fuss over the bypass filter would think nothing of burning waste motor oil / transmission fluid or some other homemade slop.[/QUOTE]

Give me a double cheese burger with bacon and a diet coke (I am watching my weight).

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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

Most of my life has been outside of USA and I speak from that experience, in most countries the literal words of reliable engines list almost always has a mercedes benz IDI engine in it then followed by some puegeot, toyota and isuzu - and sometimes mazda.

For gasoline fired engines in USA, almost any regular oil sold anywhere in USA is upto the task unless you own a rare engine requiring a very special oil. And most oils sold today and being used in modern EFI engines are good for atleast a 5000 miles oil change interval. (provided the owner actually checks the oil as most people today dont even know how to pop the hood open)

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2012 BMW X5 (Beef + Granite suspension model)

1995 E300D - The original humming machine (consumed by Flood 2017)
2000 E320 - The evolution (consumed by flood 2017)