Ah, yes, this brings up another similarity between the Bush administration and the Third Reich. That similarity is the conducting of a "first strike" military attack on another country wherein the publiclly announced reasons turn out to be false. When Hitler invaded the Sudetenland, the announced reason was that the Germans living there were being treated badly. History proved that false. When Bush invaded Iraq, the announced reason was that Iraq had certain strategic weapons. Recent history has proven that this claim too was false and that the information relied upon, even if it had been true, made far too weak a case to justify a "first strike" invasion. What happened here, even when construed in a light most favorable to the Bush administration, violates every principle of initiation of war I was taught in several sessions of my training when I was a military officer. I was taught that the US does not initiate pre-emptive war unless (1) the other country has the weapons to initiate an attack on a country that would involve the US in the war (2) the oher country has a delivery system for such weapons, and (3) the other country has unmistakably developed intentions for a specific attack. Here, in the best light, the Bush administration THOUGHT Iraq had the weapons (but they were wrong). But it was never claimed that Iraq had a delivery system (bombers, missles), and it did not. And it was never claimed that Iraq had developed an intent to attack any SPECIFIC country. (Can you name it? Thought not!)

Thanks,
Richard

Dan:

Your post merits specific reply.

One thing George Bush, Osama Bin Laden, and Sadam Hussein all agree about is that Iraq and Sadam had nothing to do with 9/11! Bin Laden's group admittedly did, and Bush had my fullest support when he went after THEM. When Bush shifted the emphasis to Iraq, I said "huh???" Why? And I'm still saying that.

Please note that I am not one of those who thinks any suggestion that the US should get some better control over some Mid-East oil is obscene. But Bush never said he invaded Iraq for this purpose, for what that's worth. Moreover, if he did invade Iraq for this purpose, he failed miserably at it. Oil supplies are tighter and more uncertain than before, and prices are much higher.

As I dig into the facts, the invasion of Iraq look more and more like a "power play for power's sake", pure and simple. And that is another paralled with the Third Reich.

Thanks,
Richard

Nobody ever said you had to be objective in your distribution of facts. KV comes up with some good reading and the stuff he comes up with makes you really have to think.

History is going to tell all about the GW Bush administration one day and I think oil will be a big part of it whether he said it for not. If he does it right it will secure cheap oil for another 50-60 years for the "Great Society". I am of the opinion that this oil situation is NOT going to get any better. In addition, I can say I have enjoyed the majority of my lifetime with cheap oil and I realize those days are long gone. I'm going to learn to deal with it.

I can't say I am really scared - too old for that. I guess I'm somewhat apprehensive as much as anything else but that is only when I read these types of threads. American society unfortunately is in my opinion, on a slipperly downhill slope.

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Jim

Clinton got far less than Bush got..................total votes.

The simularities are the Democrats actually are the ones who want to take away the rights given us in the original 13 amendments.......not the republicans, you are dilusional if you think otherwise.

Sounds like ole sour grapes Gore who was such a sore looser.

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"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche

No fear here. I live atop a mountain (OK -- a large hill). If I don't like the look of things, I just don't look toward the bottom. I'll probably take another peak in about 4 years...

posted by KV

Can you 'splain this one Lucy?

Makes for some strange bedfellows, the Saudi's and the S.S.

Bush is such a supporter of Israel, I'll bet that gets on his buddies' nerves.

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You may think its good reading that’s fine. But his statements, such as that quote, he posted would lead you to believe it to be true. IT IS NOT!!!!
That is were the problem (lies)

Iraq is the single most strategic nation in the Middle East.
It borders on six other countries: Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Syria, Turkey, and Iran. In other words, from Iraq and with our forces in Afghanistan the United States could influence events in countries that ranged from the Himalayas to the Mediterranean and from the Black Sea and the Caucuses to the Red and Arabian Seas.

Just like this statement here. Point out the truth with facts to this.

Originally Posted by KirkVining
The entire world, along with 50 million democrats in this country, consider our actions in Iraq deceitful. I'm sure that doesn't bother the deceitful people who got us into this mess. Our electorate has judged that deceit is ok, so it now marches triumphant. The only thing it cost us was our leadership of the free world, and our honor. Perhaps we can win it back by shooting a few more unarmed prisoners in mosques.

The idea of making tit for tat direct comparisons is kind of lame. There might be a hint of similarity or a vague potential for things to become that totalitarian here. The place the German economy was coming from after WWI may be a place we wind up, but again there is only a hint of that potential.
The comparison I see is that both governments were intent on taking away the freedoms of the people and have/had great support from the very middle/ working class people they will/would harm the most. At opposite ends of an economic spectrum – the German's had no economy and we got California, You Nork and the Mississippi River. Someone must have noticed that we more and more are becoming only a service economy, picking one another’s pockets, but we do buy lots-a-stuff. In both situations the government needed/needs to keep the public from recognizing the king was naked and just keep marching ahead. Actually the German’s may have had an easier job by having nothing, while we try to hold on to what can never be paid for. Maybe if I had not just paid my property taxes I feel differently.
I haven’t seen any numbers to show a direct relationship to how the war is effecting employment, but since it’s all being done on my daughters credit card I can’t see anything but short term pluses. The world has a love/hate/fear relationship with us.
They love us because we are good customers, and they get lots of money to buy our bonds and own more and more of us. They hate us for using up a disproportionate amount of resources that they will someday need. They fear us because they’re afraid we will find out we’re bankrupt with only a huge military to maintain our position.

Dan Howard made the case very well

We just don’t get it – Gas won’t be $5.00 for a least another year.

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"The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."
Marcus Aurelius

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1312540,00.html

http://www.nhgazette.com/cgi-bin/NHGstore.cgi?user_action=detail&catalogno=NN_Bush_Nazi_2

I didn't read page 3 of this thread so this may be a little out of context:

But I am happy Bush go re elected and hope to see more red states in the future. Beleive it a lot 59 million Americans are not stupid trailer trash. (as some high profile people have stated) Frankly I am enjoying this election it is pissing off the Democrats and the countrys that hate us. I think the war on terrior is going ok like anything it could have been handled better but people make mistakes. Iraq could have been planned better but it is not another Vietnam yet. Lets give it another year. The world is not coming to an end yet however we may be on the verge of WW3. I will like to watch how events in the next 5 years in Asia unfold.

Remember all of the screaming about bringing back the draft! Wow that was funny!

Let the flamming begin but I love my country and will always support her and her leaders over other countries.

Just a point of view from the other side.

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I've heard it said more than once that "as soon as the word 'Nazi' is tossed into a debate by a participant, that participant has just officially declared that he is out of ammo, and is now just swinging blindly."

This one STARTED with Nazi-ism, and has gone downhill from there.

Mike

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1979 300 SD
350,000 miles
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1985 300TD
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1994 E320
not my favorite, but the wife wanted it

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Like he said.

What happened in Germany could have happened anywhere, or for that matter, anytime. As the cliche goes, it's a Warning From History. While it may appear to be hackneyed even mentioning the Nazis, we should put our intellectual posturing aside and learn from them. There is nothing peculiar about Germans - it isn't genetic - and the thread of fascism runs through all of us (some more than others!) and most of all our governments. Watch the ba$tards - they're watching you.

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Oh, we see the advantages of a friendly Iraq -- that isn't the issue at all. The issue is the "myopic partisans" who employ an "end justifies the means" mentality to impose a collective will upon others regardless of the horrific cost. Apparently, perspective is everything...