The reality based community

[kerry]

Today's Denver Post quoted Bush on why he refuses to talk to Cindy Sheehan, the mother whose son was killed in Iraq. Bush said he can't talk to her because "It's important for me to go on with my life."
Can't be any more reality based than that.

[AustinsCE]

"I may not have been the greatest president, but I've had the most fun eight years." –Bill Clinton

[GermanStar]

What, are you filling in for Bone?

[djugurba]

Originally Posted by kerry edwards

Today's Denver Post quoted Bush on why he refuses to talk to Cindy Sheehan, the mother whose son was killed in Iraq. Bush said he can't talk to her because "It's important for me to go on with my life."
Can't be any more reality based than that.

You mean she's one of over 1800 mothers whose sons have been killed in Iraq...

[koop]

Well he ought to meet with her. His numbers are in the tank, she aint going nowhere it's a PR nightmare.

[koop]

I agree with you about the lame duck part. Republicans are running from him. SS is a dead issue. He's done enough damage, time to just run out the clock.

[Botnst]

Why meet her twice? She's pretty-well demonstrated her feelings are immutable. I don't think ol' George is going to change his policy because of anything she has to say. And what does she have to say?

Her son died.

Well, that happens. For the parent, it especially sucks.

Given the choice, I rather expect her son would prefer to be alive.

Given the choice, I'll bet even Dubyah would prefer that her son not have died carrying-out US policy. But it was his choice to join the Army, not his Mommy's. He signed, he did the training, he fought the battles and he lost his life doing it. It may not be what we want and it damn-sure isn't what he wanted. But he did his duty.

So, how does Mom honor her son's choices and her son's death? Playing politics with her son's corpse. Some honor.

Yeah, if I were the president, I wouldn't want to be in the same room with her. Heck, I don't have to be president to feel that way.

[Honus]

Originally Posted by Botnst

...So, how does Mom honor her son's choices and her son's death? Playing politics with her son's corpse. Some honor...

I'm sure she's crushed that she can't live up to your famous regard for personal honor. Clearly, you are in a much better position to determine the most honorable way to remember the son who died for what she believes is a lie. Perhaps if W won't meet with her, she could meet with you instead.

[MTI]

I guess in Botnst's world, the mothers of dead soldiers shouldn't be seen nor heard, they should just sit quietly, holding on to the flag that once draped a coffin, like all good role models.

[kamil]

That woman is insane. I don't blame Bush for not talking to her because then all the mothers will get together and want to speak to him for something or another. (this is America and that will happen, everyone wants a piece of the action) Her son knew the consenquences of joining the military.

I didn't see her complaining when her son was signing the papers to enroll in the military and receiving some of the benefits. ie. school, tax breaks, some money. People always expect something for free but like I stated already..."he knew what he was getting himself into."

Lady should go home.

[kerry]

Originally Posted by Botnst

Why meet her twice? She's pretty-well demonstrated her feelings are immutable. I don't think ol' George is going to change his policy because of anything she has to say. And what does she have to say?

Her son died.

Well, that happens. For the parent, it especially sucks.

Given the choice, I rather expect her son would prefer to be alive.

Given the choice, I'll bet even Dubyah would prefer that her son not have died carrying-out US policy. But it was his choice to join the Army, not his Mommy's. He signed, he did the training, he fought the battles and he lost his life doing it. It may not be what we want and it damn-sure isn't what he wanted. But he did his duty.

So, how does Mom honor her son's choices and her son's death? Playing politics with her son's corpse. Some honor.

Yeah, if I were the president, I wouldn't want to be in the same room with her. Heck, I don't have to be president to feel that way.

Let me get this straight. It's a soldier's duty to follow a lying commander in chief pursuing imperial interests far afield? If a soldier's commanding officer orders her to kill an enemy combatant because the officer claims the enemy is armed but the soldier knows the enemy isn't, is it the soldier's duty to kill the enemy or disobey the commanding officer?
I thought it was a soldier's duty to protect his or her country.

[Botnst]

Originally Posted by kerry edwards

Let me get this straight. It's a soldier's duty to follow a lying commander in chief pursuing imperial interests far afield? If a soldier's commanding officer orders her to kill an enemy combatant because the officer claims the enemy is armed but the soldier knows the enemy isn't, is it the soldier's duty to kill the enemy or disobey the commanding officer?
I thought it was a soldier's duty to protect his or her country.

Play it straight and I will.

It is a soldier's duty to follow lawful orders, period. Was he given lawful orders?

Bot

[peragro]

Ok, a few talking points here:

First;

Originally Posted by koop

Well he ought to meet with her. His numbers are in the tank, she aint going nowhere it's a PR nightmare.

why, oh why do people think that because poll numbers are down so and so should do such and such. This seemed to be the mentality that lost the last election. I’d much rather have a leader who did what he thought was right rather than what the latest survey said. Why not just elect Richard Dawson president; remember “survey says…”
And please don’t respond with “we’re a democracy, so opinion matters”. We elect officials for a period of time. We don’t ask for opinion every time a decision is needed, thank God.

Second, right on Bot. As usual, a very succinct synopsis.

Third; Not knowing Ms. Sheehan I don’t know what her motivations are. Though a good indicator seems to be that her family is distancing themselves from her. I, much like her husband, would certainly not be happy with my son’s life being used the way she is going about this. I also find it quite disgusting that the far left groups and Michael Moore are using this situation for publicity. It’s dishonorable, low and shameful.

Fouth;

Originally Posted by dculkin

I take it that Casey Sheehan was a professional soldier. He never had any intention other than to defend the country. As such, he had no real choice when the Commander in Chief sent him to Iraq. It wasn't his place to question his orders or abandon his comrades. All of which only justifies his mother's anger at W. When honorable men and women put their lives on the line, the President has to be scrupulously honest in deciding whether to send them into harm's way. If Cindy Sheehan believes that W violated that trust, then it would dishonor her son were she to remain silent.

Please stop alluding that the poor guys in the military have no choice but to follow the evil whims of the president. They will follow the orders of the lawfully elected Commander in Chief, whether he be republican or democrat. They did so on several occasions during the 1990s. That was the CHOICE made upon enlistment or commissioning. They are neither stupid nor uninformed, quite the opposite. This is the most educated military that we have ever had and perhaps the world has ever seen. Oh, and by the way, they support this President by overwhelming majority. Could that be why the DNC tried to suppress their vote?

[Honus]

Originally Posted by peragro

...Please stop alluding that the poor guys in the military have no choice but to follow the evil whims of the president....

When did I ever say that? Or allude to it?

...They will follow the orders of the lawfully elected Commander in Chief, whether he be republican or democrat. They did so on several occasions during the 1990s. That was the CHOICE made upon enlistment or commissioning. They are neither stupid nor uninformed, quite the opposite. This is the most educated military that we have ever had and perhaps the world has ever seen...

Sounds right to me.

...Oh, and by the way, they support this President by overwhelming majority...

Did someone say different? And does their support for Bush mean that us non-soldiers are required to agree with them?

Could that be why the DNC tried to suppress their vote?

That comment ranks right up there (or down there) with charges that the RNC tried to suppress the black vote.

[djugurba]

I'm sure 'mom' was supportive of her son's military service. He undoubtedly assumed that going to war was a logical possibility of his position. And, she would have been stupid not to assume the same.

The issue is not whether or not he should have expected to go to war, but under what grounds he'd be expected to die in a war. W's position of public trust demands that when he commit troops to situations in which they may be killed in action, he do so for valid reasons.

Her contention is that W. has betrayed a critical public trust by lying to both military and citizenry with regards to the need to go to war in Iraq. And, her contention is easily proven true. Thusly, she has a reason to complain.

She does not impugne her son's decision to serve in doing so. She does, however, take issue with the reasons given us for going into that war in the first place. Her son HAS died for nothing, and I think we'd all be pissed if in the same boat- especially if the one who made the decision to send him off was busy concocting more lies to keep sending more soldiers to their deaths.