That is not the mother's problem, is it? Just because I am your only hope to mature to a living being doesn't mean I have to do anything to help you if I don't want to.

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No, what you are saying is that you want them to have the same interpretation of when life begins as you do.

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I'm no lawyer, but isn't that manslaughter? You are certainly not free to eject someone into dire circumstances.

But what if they, like myself don't see that life begins at the point you do? Do we have to change it to what you believe because you believe it is right?

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Life continues at conception. It certainly does not begin there.

But where does humanity begin? That's the only question that I care about. I don't buy the idea that a clump of cells is as valuable as a self-aware person.

I guess I am saying that the ball of cells is about as alive as a tumour. When I say alive, I mean alive as you or I. Maybe the word is sentient?

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But can't you say that a cow is capable of feelings, and thus sentient? I have raised cows, and realize that they are about the stupidest animals out there. I really don't think that they are self-aware. They are only aware of their senses and are capable of essentially no thought.

I also eat pigs, and they are much smarter. Possibly as smart as dogs. Is that wrong?

I think self-awareness is the yardstick. Too bad we have no reliable metrics for it.

Cow, GoldFish, Deer, Chicken, Frog, all the same, no thoughts, strictly instinct.

You might have a point there.

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That said, how about legalizing abortion through the 75th trimester? That will keep those damn kids in line!

Why is this so obvious? Nobody seems to have considered that to be the case for tens of thousands of years, or at least made no attempt to record it in the thousands of laws and philosophical ruminations that were produced over the last couple of thousand years.
Cancer cells start splitting but no one is willing to give them any independent moral status.
If a small clump of cells is the moral equal of a self-conscious adult, why don't we issue the person a driver's license at the moment of conception?
We generally don't concede that a human is a full person until 21 in the United States so we clearly hold to a developing view of personhood. A couple of dividing cells with human dna has a minute portion of personhood. More is added every day until the age of 21. The moral interaction of adults with that person varies with the amount of personhood the thing has.
The fetus in a pregnant woman is absolutely dependent on the will of the mother. Does the mother lose the right to suicide just because she is pregnant? Does she commit murder if she suicides while pregnant? We all came into existence because of the good wills of our mothers. As person's who can freely give us existence,mothers have the right to rescind that existence as long as that existence depends entirely upon them. If they do not have that legal right, the State will be coercing women to reproduce. Since the State can't coerce men to reproduce, it shouldn't coerce women either.

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Lots of damaged people cannot survive without life support. So what>

Why not make a clean break and just say that killing an individual is okay if you can get away with it? This is the essential argument of Fyodor Dostoevsky. He was a smart boy.

It's like this: If a person is such a dullard that he/she cannot sustain himself, why should that person be a burden on society? Just put the sucker in the recycle bin and see what else comes along. In that way we filter funky genes from the population (by killing them before they reproduce) and don't have any inconvenience to our own self-indulgent, finite lives.

B

Maybe I am not the brightest bulb but I have no idea what you are asking? How hard is it to understand that abortion is a WOMENS health issue. We men should have NO say in it. Its not our body and its not our decision. I don't see how you can "require" any woman to do anything she doesn't want to with her reproductive activities. Any man who gets excited about this has very misplaced ideas. Let the women decide and butt out. RT

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Maybe you're right in the first instance but I do not understand why you believe your assertion is self-evident in the second.

B

Yup, I know your type. The "I vote pro life" bumper sticker crowd. You think that you can impose your ideals on a subject, for whatever reason, when you simply have no right to. Women that have abortions do not take the decision lightly. Many have lasting scars from it. The alternative is they carry an child that is unwanted to term and then give it up. This leaves scars too. So you wish to remove an option from a decision thats not even yours to make. Preposterous. Should my wife, or any other women that I care for choose to have an abortion, for whatever reason, I would support it. Not allowing them that option is demeaning and a disservice to them as a whole. You are saying you don't trust them to do what is right, for them. Who made you judge and jury? I thought that was the purview of someone high above? I will also say that were a person such as yourself to get in the way of a woman I care about and prevent her from having that option I would gladly place a gun barrel to your head and pull the trigger. You are messing with something you have no say in. RT

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