The logic is comical:

I want my rights to be protected but condemn the soldier or policeman that defends them.

I love meat, but the butcher is a murderer.

I am an ########

I wish I didn't have such a bad attitude about our leaders but I honestly have a hard time getting serious about respecting most of these guys.

My feelings about Westmoreland and Johnson are somehwere in the ballpark of your feelings about Rumsfeld. I saw a good deal of film footage of Westmoreland speaking and heard stories about him from a former employer (machine shop foreman, actually) who had been a lieutenant in Nam.

Don't get me started.

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1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K

No more and obviously no less than yours.

__________________
...Tracy

'00 ML320 "Casper"
'92 400E "Stella"

I rarely condemn soldiers. Many, many times, warfare is unavoidable and to be unprepared for it is lunacy.

There have been times when soldiers could have been of great service to their country by walking away from a bizarre enterprise their leaders had dragged them into. Two biggies in recent history -- Nazi Germany and Tojo's Japan. There were dissenters in both countries -- obviously their viewpoint did not carry the day. One wonders how many soldiers had qualms about some of the wholesale murder and enslavement they were dealing out.

It won't be easy evolving into a world where all citizens are purt near philosopher-kings but it's the only solution. Like having a business where the employees aren't afraid to make a tough decision on the ground -- a decision that if not made now will cost the firm big bucks.

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1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K

Tracy, you are the only one on this forum that labels a soldier a murderer, the one and only. Ask your cat what this means if you can't figure it out.

Thanks for sharing your opinion.

__________________
...Tracy

'00 ML320 "Casper"
'92 400E "Stella"

Meow

There might have been. However, I do not think either of those armies have that many dissenters that it mattered. Besides, I do know that German dissenters sometimes lost their lives.

That is a good solution but probably a pipe dream. Employees are not afraid to make decisions. They are afraid to make decisions that make them look bad and not get that promotion or bonus. I can make all sorts of decisions if you will remove the penalties that come with it going bad.

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01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

BTW, thanks for vilifying me for not finding joy in killing. It says a lot.

__________________
...Tracy

'00 ML320 "Casper"
'92 400E "Stella"

Amen.

That happened when you first referred to our soldiers as murderers.

Yep it’s all my fault. Killing is good. It is all we have. Everyone should do it every day!



Happy now?

__________________
...Tracy

'00 ML320 "Casper"
'92 400E "Stella"

Lawyers, judges, politicians, and we the people, defend and protect our liberties and rights. Soldiers should simply stand guard against external threats against our nation's borders, territorial waters and airspace. Police keep the peace and eat starchy pastries.

You haven't made the comments that Lebenz has made about the soldiers actions which were far more judgmental than what I posted. But you still might be a chicken. Or a goat, or a horse, or a woman, or a..........

If you want to stick to calling combat related killing murder, the conversation is already over because we will have to agree to disagree on the definition.