Wrong Number - Page 20 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

boneheaddoctor · #**286** 05-03-2006, 02:59 PM

Nothing like the super civilized and corruption free countries critisizing us (thats sarcasm in case you miss it)....perhaps they would be better served by a little introspective looks at what is wrong with their own society before they start pointing fingers at us.

cmac2012 · #**287** 05-04-2006, 02:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

Yep, been to Guatemala. Yep, they have had a long series of brutal governments since the Mayan civilization. Yep, the Spaniards didn't help matters. So there's this direct line history of autocratic brutality and in some fashion the USA has dealt with it. Sometimes with 'gunboat diplomacy' sometimes with naive love-fests sucking-up to murderers and dictators and both. Maybe we shoul dgo into that country and straighten them all out instead of dealing with them on their own terms. Right?

Mick Jagger was related to Samoza through marriage. Makes you think huh?

I won't try to claim that the US is the author of every problem in Latin America. I think we have frequently exacerbated conditions in the pursuit of fun and profit, or at least, Am. nationals and companies have. With Guatemala, it was a mix of both. You prbably know about the Dulles Bros.' holdings in United Fruit. The way I've read the story, and heard Roetinger recount it, is the Arbenz was flirting with some socialism -- was going to or had nationalized some vast tracts being held fallow for future use or sale by UF. Supposedly, Arbenz allowed some communists to participate in his government. I guess no one told him commies were automatically the spawn of Satan.

All this was too much for the Dulles Bros. who mounted the '54 coup. Roetinger claims that Arbenz was one of the brightest lights Guatemala had had -- he came by this opinion during and after the operation. Your statement about Somoza not being a US gubmint guy is a bit of a cop-out, I'm sorry. US biz has long treated many parts of Latin Am as sort of the Gitmo of business spheres -- much less restriction.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

Yessir, it's good he's gone. It's also good that the commie bastards are gone, too and the government is a duly elected constitutionally limited, representative democracy. You would agree that is better than a commie military dictatorship, wouldn't you? You know, like the USSR, Chicoms, and Cambodia and your own personal favorite....

Commie bastards. Just the guys who finally managed to give the boot to the guy of whom you say it's good that he's gone. What revolution in Latin Am hasn't gone badly? They weren't sharing power? How out of character. Point is, our state dept. paved the road for Am. bidness to make good profits in Nic., along with Somoza, who may as well have been Bill Gates next to the average Nicaraguan. I've examined a lot of evidence on this score.

So they manage to oust the guy and yet they couldn't turn Nic. around in a few years so we hired the rankest bunch of mercenaries in Latin Am. to destabalize the place. Oh, we're a friend to democracy all right. Elections being held in Nic? Oh thank god. Of course, nowhere in the world are elections a mere sham to front a dictator. Hell, Somoza was "elected."

My "personal favorite." I suppose you can speak authoritatively about how the average VN citizen is doing much worse than they did under the French? Sometimes, you got to let people make their own mistakes. Lot easier than trying to stop them.

cmac2012 · #**288** 05-04-2006, 02:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Doe

Er, that was kind of my point, why are you getting sidetracked with Aklim when this may take precious time away from your re-education of Bot.....

Mythology?? May be you that needs to get busy.

Re-education of Bot?!? I'd rather tackle a project I have a chance of succeeding at, like oh, discovering a cure for cancer and aids all rolled into one.... or maybe peace in our time.

The guy's opinions are more interesting than most here but I'm sadly concluding that he's not an entirely honest broker. He says bring me evidence. I bring it. The response is "nice story."

He's supposedly a scientist but if you bring information that runs counter to one of his pet theories, it's "what information?"

As for mythology, OK soothsayer and seer, what sort of bogus mythology am I encumbered with? IYHO, of course.

cmac2012 · #**289** 05-04-2006, 04:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

How do I know? The hard way: I do read.

"Linkee please." - Botnst

mikemover · #**290** 05-04-2006, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012

Re-education of Bot?!? I'd rather tackle a project I have a chance of succeeding at, like oh, discovering a cure for cancer and aids all rolled into one.... or maybe peace in our time.

The guy's opinions are more interesting than most here but I'm sadly concluding that he's not an entirely honest broker. He says bring me evidence. I bring it. The response is "nice story."

He's supposedly a scientist but if you bring information that runs counter to one of his pet theories, it's "what information?"

The same could be said of you... minus the "supposedly a scientist" part....

You are no less guilty than anyone else here of seeing and hearing what you WANT to see and hear.

Mike

cmac2012 · #**291** 05-04-2006, 02:04 PM

I examine evidence when it's presented and if I'm going to sneer at someone, I'll back it up with some kind of argument.

The Nicaragua thing is like the straw on the camels back for me. GDed stain on our country almost as bad as Vietnam and people who can't cite one word of support for it claim that it was a good thing.

America, uber alles.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikemover

You are no less guilty than anyone else here of seeing and hearing what you WANT to see and hear.

What, no examples?

John Doe · #**292** 05-04-2006, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikemover

The same could be said of you... minus the "supposedly a scientist" part....

You are no less guilty than anyone else here of seeing and hearing what you WANT to see and hear.

Mike

I swear I was about to type this before I read your post. Now I don't have to get out my Edith Hamilton reference to respond

mikemover · #**293** 05-04-2006, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012

What, no examples?

No examples needed... Either you see it or you don't.

We do.

Mike

Zeitgeist · #**294** 05-04-2006, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikemover

No examples needed... Either you see it or you don't.

We do.

Mike

That's the kind of "trust us, we know what we're doing" attitude that gets folks sent off to die fighting in pointless wars of aggression. I think we Merkins need to see more examples of "proof" before we swallow those kind of BS pills again. The man asked for examples, why not hand em over?

cmac2012 · #**295** 05-04-2006, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

Mick Jagger was related to Samoza through marriage. Makes you think huh?

Damn Mick and Bianca Jagger for looting $100 million from a country slightly richer than Haiti.

It makes me think all right -- think that, in our land are incurious posers more interested in covering the broad backside of their dearly held belief systems with any loose bit of flippant nonsense that comes to hand than they are in putting aside bias long enough to examine new evidence that might, emphasize might, aid in a clearer understanding of the world.

Is that how science is supposed to work? I'm just a former fruit-picker, these things are generally above my head.