Wrong Number - Page 18 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

#**256** 05-01-2006, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeitgeist

Merkin version of moral authority: As long as we're not acting as "bad" as Nazis, everything's hunky dory.

I pick my nose sometimes; it does not matter how deep I go it's picking to some and scratching to others.

Zeitgeist · #**257** 05-01-2006, 02:47 PM

Thanks for sharing...I guess.

Lebenz · #**258** 05-01-2006, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

Your observations are valid for ungulates, but not sufficient to cover predatory packs of carnivores. Humans are somewhere in between. So if we are going to base morality on observations of animals then a complete model would acknowledge the full range of behaviors. From there we can (and probably will) descend into an endless argument of which animal traits are appropriate to anthropomorphize and which are not: The list and the argument will themselves be indicative of a human trait not found in nature and probably even more important in a comprehensive model: Judgement.

Before we can "acknowledge the truth" we have to agree on what the truth is. For example, I might argue that the "truth" is that nature is red in tooth and claw and that a natural morality would therefore be more likely to align itself with the Meso-American Aztecs than with a vegetarian commune in Everet Washington. For example.

What was that guy's name wandering around with a lamp looking for an honest man? Bet he'd trip over Truth looking for honesty.

Bot

First my observations, while in no way inclusive are based on fox, raccoon, skunk, and various other critters. As with our elk population, these critters demonstrate an obvious nature of protecting each other and defending against enemies. Would agree that protection of the community and defense of enemies are common traits among humans?

Second, WRT your example of a “searcher for truth” I believe you are referring to Diogenes of Sinope. While a lot of folk know the story of his search for an honest man, most are not aware that, in fact, Diogenes was never truly searching for anything, and, in fact, he was exploiting a lie. You see, Diogenes was a very well known cynic. And as with all cynics, a sham pretence of one thing is enough to convince the casual observer that the quest was as stated. When in reality, his well known quest was intended as mockery of his countrymen. That so many folks believed the lie brings us right back to the truth of what taking aim at someone and deliberately killing them amounts to. This is a truth we are uncomfortable with, so we wrap it up in the flag and call it advancing democracy, which is a sham worthy of Diogenes. http://www.benbest.com/philo/diogenes.html

It will probably come as no surprise that Alexander the Great admired Diogenes ….greatly. So I am sure would GWB.

cmac2012 · #**259** 05-01-2006, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

When some damn-fool European court sends there army over here to arrest somebody I'll give a ***** what some damn-fool European court says.

Maybe when they charge the murderers in Darfur, Saddam Hussein, Idi Amin, Pol Pot, Mao Tse Tung and Joe Stalin with some sort of crime they'll have value.

Nicaragua? Oh yeah, excellent campaign. Ran the commie bastards out of there and helped install a representative democracy that is stable today. Some of the commie bastards recently stood for election, something the corrupt commie bastards didn't do after they seized power from the corrupt dictatorship that preceded them.

Too bad about Vietnam. Instead of having your tape stuck in rewind, what do you think of their PRESENT regime?

Oh lord, please don't let me be misunderstood - da-na-na---na, da-na-na-na-nah...

I reference the sins of Somoza and Batista NOT because I wish to say that the communists who followed were a good alternative, or that they were/have been justified in everything they've done.

The knee jerk anti-commie would have us believe that until the arrival of the damn malignant strain of nefarious viral infection, communism, peaceful democratic governance had been the norm in the nations in question. My point is that it was the brutal excesses of those regimes that prepared the way for a communist message to appeal to the people and take root.

We have little control over what goes on in the minds of a Castro or Ortega. We have, or ought to have, some control over what bidness originating in and benefitting our country does in other nations -- activities that affect our public image in those lands and which can (and have) lead to armed revolutions.

The Sandinistas had some problems? Well knock me over with a feather. They were starting from scratch. One of the more publicized attrocities of theirs, the forced removal of tribal peoples and resettlement into camps, was a direct result of our Contra campaign. The Indians were aiding the supplying of the Contras, many of whom were drawn from the ranks of Somoza's hated Nat. Guard -- guys who could have taught OOday Hussein a few tricks.

Ran the commie bastards out of there and helped install a representative democracy that is stable today. - Bot, renowned commie hunter.

Well, that's the Disney world version, the part of the theme park next to NOLA, Disney World.

The fellow in the lilnked story thought that a prolific fiber crop might be of value to the struggling economy of Nic. His group managed to obtain Nic. Gov. approval for a pilot project, trying out strains of ind. hemp they had come up with for use in tropical climates. The guy was lucky to get out alive after the govt. did an about face, burned the test plot, and put the guy in a (whew..) lousy jail: Nicaragua Hemp Bust. Official word is that our Gubmint's strict abhorrence of all things cannibis had nothing to do with it. Who would'a thought that?

I don't how an educated guy like you can buy such pablum about Nicaragua. During the Contra campaign (did you ever see any pictures of those guys?

), I forget the exact numbers but the same ratio of numbers of peasants killed to total pop. if applied to the US, would work out to several million.

That the people voted for the US backed contingent back in the late 80s should be occasion for further investigation, not some celebration that the people chose democracy (fireworks, stirring anthems). It had been made clear to them that the costs of not going along with their longtime Uncle were unacceptably high. I heard testimony from women claiming they'd been raped more than 50 times by the Contras. That's what those guys had become used to as Somoza's henchmen -- it came naturally to them.

cmac2012 · #**260** 05-01-2006, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MedMech

Because we put soldiers in jail that make prisoners bark like a dog or some other locker room prank thats why. The fact of the matter is our military rules itself and that is proven time and time again but what good are facts when you don't care.

Tell me if I strip you naked, make you roll around in crap and dirt, stack you up in naked pyramids with other guys, all the while laughing with my buddies and some chicks, that you're going to think of it as a locker-room prank and still want to be pals.

John Doe · #**261** 05-01-2006, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012

Tell me if I strip you naked, make you roll around in crap and dirt, stack you up in naked pyramids with other guys, all the while laughing with my buddies and some chicks, that you're going to think of it as a locker-room prank and still want to be pals.

So, you want to use this little scenario to compare to Abu Graib? Don't forget to leave the part out about how Med is in jail for trying to (or having) kill Americans. It is a War, not a football game.

#**262** 05-01-2006, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012

Tell me if I strip you naked, make you roll around in crap and dirt, stack you up in naked pyramids with other guys, all the while laughing with my buddies and some chicks, that you're going to think of it as a locker-room prank and still want to be pals.

Uh I did do that

its called hell week

, on about 7 different occasions 4 military 3 civilian.

Zeitgeist · #**263** 05-01-2006, 04:09 PM

My fuzzy memory may be failing me here, but were'nt there some statistics published a while back that indicated that somewhere around 80% of the folks in Abu Ghraib were never charged with a crime, and may have actually been innocents grabbed during wholesale neighborhood roundups? Merkin values and justice on display for all to see.

#**264** 05-01-2006, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeitgeist

My fuzzy memory may be failing me here,

You should have that checked.

Botnst · #**265** 05-01-2006, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012

Oh lord, please don't let me be misunderstood - da-na-na---na, da-na-na-na-nah...

I reference the sins of Somoza and Batista NOT because I wish to say that the communists who followed were a good alternative, or that they were/have been justified in everything they've done.

The knee jerk anti-commie would have us believe that until the arrival of the damn malignant strain of nefarious viral infection, communism, peaceful democratic governance had been the norm in the nations in question. My point is that it was the brutal excesses of those regimes that prepared the way for a communist message to appeal to the people and take root.

We have little control over what goes on in the minds of a Castro or Ortega. We have, or ought to have, some control over what bidness originating in and benefitting our country does in other nations -- activities that affect our public image in those lands and which can (and have) lead to armed revolutions.

The Sandinistas had some problems? Well knock me over with a feather. They were starting from scratch. One of the more publicized attrocities of theirs, the forced removal of tribal peoples and resettlement into camps, was a direct result of our Contra campaign. The Indians were aiding the supplying of the Contras, many of whom were drawn from the ranks of Somoza's hated Nat. Guard -- guys who could have taught OOday Hussein a few tricks.

Ran the commie bastards out of there and helped install a representative democracy that is stable today. - Bot, renowned commie hunter.

Well, that's the Disney world version, the part of the theme park next to NOLA, Disney World.

The fellow in the lilnked story thought that a prolific fiber crop might be of value to the struggling economy of Nic. His group managed to obtain Nic. Gov. approval for a pilot project, trying out strains of ind. hemp they had come up with for use in tropical climates. The guy was lucky to get out alive after the govt. did an about face, burned the test plot, and put the guy in a (whew..) lousy jail: Nicaragua Hemp Bust. Official word is that our Gubmint's strict abhorrence of all things cannibis had nothing to do with it. Who would'a thought that?

I don't how an educated guy like you can buy such pablum about Nicaragua. During the Contra campaign (did you ever see any pictures of those guys?

), I forget the exact numbers but the same ratio of numbers of peasants killed to total pop. if applied to the US, would work out to several million.

That the people voted for the US backed contingent back in the late 80s should be occasion for further investigation, not some celebration that the people chose democracy (fireworks, stirring anthems). It had been made clear to them that the costs of not going along with their longtime Uncle were unacceptably high. I heard testimony from women claiming they'd been raped more than 50 times by the Contras. That's what those guys had become used to as Somoza's henchmen -- it came naturally to them.

Great story.

aklim · #**266** 05-01-2006, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012

Tell me if I strip you naked, make you roll around in crap and dirt, stack you up in naked pyramids with other guys, all the while laughing with my buddies and some chicks, that you're going to think of it as a locker-room prank and still want to be pals.

Lets see, they are foriegn fighters who came in for what? Sightseeing? In Nam, they were N Vietnamese vs S Vietnamese and us. Strip them naked and all that? If I had my way, they would wish they were Jews in a death camp with Dr Mangela.

NKowi · #**267** 05-01-2006, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

Lets see, they are foriegn fighters who came in for what? Sightseeing? In Nam, they were N Vietnamese vs S Vietnamese and us. Strip them naked and all that? If I had my way, they would wish they were Jews in a death camp with Dr Mangela.

You left out, among others, Chinese fighters and Russian "advisors" (kinda like we had in the early days of Viet Nam).

aklim · #**268** 05-01-2006, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NKowi

You left out, among others, Chinese fighters and Russian "advisers" (kinda like we had in the early days of Viet Nam).

I fugured it was kinda even then since we had our own "advisors".

cmac2012 · #**269** 05-02-2006, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

How about this? As pure as Ho Chi Mihn. Fair enough?

I have no doubt Ho and boys did some bad stuff. Less often noted are the decades of brutal exploitation by the French, from whom we took the baton in the great campaign to keep IndoChina in the subservient colony dept.

Ho had the support of 80 to 90% of the Vietnamese people most of the time. If he was as awful as everyone wants to make him out to be, why was he so popular?