Wrong Number - Page 19 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

cmac2012 · #**271** 05-02-2006, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

Jeff save your breath. Those guys sound like a broken record.

Didn't you know we were an evil eimpire responsible for everything wrong with the world?

Also the US should always be blamed first.

Anyone who draws ANY comparison between our military and the way the Japanese acted and what the Germans did during WW2 needs to go open up a good history book. Becuase such comparisons only show how poor your grasp on history is.

As opposed to never blaming the US, we are the good guys, etc. I've looked at WW2 history a fair amount, just saw the "WW2 in color" video again the other night. There was a fair amount of filming done in color in the latter part of the war.

You wanna talk about broken record, the continual poo-poohing and vilification of those who put a stop to the lunacy that was Vietnam is a major part of the problem. What we did there got into the realm of Germany/Japan WW2 and anyone who doesn't think so needs to go open up a good history book.

cmac2012 · #**272** 05-02-2006, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Doe

Maybe he instilled fervent nationalism like Hitler?

Of course he did. Wasn't hard to do. Have you read about some of what the French did from the late 19th cent. up til WW2, and then started up again til they were finally defeated in 1954?

Best I can tell, it was way more brutal than anything the Brits ever did to the Yankees. And then the puppets we put up, Diem especially, were more brutal than Ho and gang.

cmac2012 · #**273** 05-02-2006, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

Great story.

Typical 'I know you are but what am I' response. Did you read the link? The guy's a botanist, I believe.

The story is oddly like one I read of Somoza's regime, where a European who had paid some $70,000 for rum and sugar went to Nicaragua to see why no shipments were coming. They stalled him for weeks, then arrested him and left him in jail til he rotted.

OK ironclad evidence man, you know that Nicaragua is a "stable democracy" how?

You knew the Sandinistas were "commie bastards" how?

Botnst · #**274** 05-02-2006, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012

Typical 'I know you are but what am I' response. Did you read the link? The guy's a botanist, I believe.

The story is oddly like one I read of Somoza's regime, where a European who had paid some $70,000 for rum and sugar went to Nicaragua to see why no shipments were coming. They stalled him for weeks, then arrested him and left him in jail til he rotted.

OK ironclad evidence man, you know that Nicaragua is a "stable democracy" how?

You knew the Sandinistas were "commie bastards" how?

Samoza was employed by which branch of government in the USA? Oh wait, he was Nicaraguan! Damn. Yessir, he did bad things. Yessir, it's good he's gone. It's also good that the commie bastards are gone, too and the government is a duly elected constitutionally limited, representative democracy. You would agree that is better than a commie military dictatorship, wouldn't you? You know, like the USSR, Chicoms, and Cambodia and your own personal favorite....

How do I know? The hard way: I do read.

Bot

John Doe · #**275** 05-02-2006, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012

Have you read about some of what the French did from the late 19th cent. up til WW2, and then started up again til they were finally defeated in 1954?

No, but what does that have to do with your pissing contest with Bot?

aklim · #**276** 05-02-2006, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012

I have no doubt Ho and boys did some bad stuff. Less often noted are the decades of brutal exploitation by the French, from whom we took the baton in the great campaign to keep IndoChina in the subservient colony dept.

Ho had the support of 80 to 90% of the Vietnamese people most of the time. If he was as awful as everyone wants to make him out to be, why was he so popular?

Hitler had quite a bit of support behind him to when he got elected. some of his actions were actually good. Didn't we take the idea of our interstates from them?

Anyway, what I was saying was that Ho and Co also broke some of those stupid Geneva convention laws that people seem to cherish. However, since they won the war, there were no tribunals and all that. If they had lost, there would be Nerumberg II

cmac2012 · #**277** 05-03-2006, 05:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

Samoza was employed by which branch of government in the USA? Oh wait, he was Nicaraguan! Damn. Yessir, he did bad things. Yessir, it's good he's gone. It's also good that the commie bastards are gone, too and the government is a duly elected constitutionally limited, representative democracy. You would agree that is better than a commie military dictatorship, wouldn't you? You know, like the USSR, Chicoms, and Cambodia and your own personal favorite....

How do I know? The hard way: I do read.

If you'd read the link I included, you'd have gotten some evidence that maybe it isn't such an evolved gubmint after all. The way the fellow was treated was not what you'd expect in a representative democracy but more in a police state fiefdom.

A lot of Somoza's power to repress his people came from his extensive dealings with US businessmen. The explotiation of that country was more tidy than it could have ever been if they were a part of our nation -- a formal part that is.

I don't think you have a clue about the health or lack of it in current Nicaraguan governance. It's borderline mythology for you guys: ....and Sir Ronald pulled the sword, e pluribus unim, from the stone and slew the great evil bear and the demon spawn of Marx.... and yea there was much singing and dancing, into the night...

cmac2012 · #**278** 05-03-2006, 05:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Doe

No, but what does that have to do with your pissing contest with Bot?

Well get busy then.

That was in response to Aklim, but the principle applies to others as well, which is: lots of mythology around who were the good guys and who were the bad. If anyone flirts with communism, they've gone over to the other side, an 'undead' of sorts that must be rubbed out.

The Sandinistas were commy bastards. Ho Chi Minh was a butcher. Why then was he so popular? Purifying one's mind of implanted bite sized propo is not easy but it's especially tough if you believe it's all gospel truth.

Botnst · #**279** 05-03-2006, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012

If you'd read the link I included, you'd have gotten some evidence that maybe it isn't such an evolved gubmint after all. The way the fellow was treated was not what you'd expect in a representative democracy but more in a police state fiefdom.

A lot of Somoza's power to repress his people came from his extensive dealings with US businessmen. The explotiation of that country was more tidy than it could have ever been if they were a part of our nation -- a formal part that is.

I don't think you have a clue about the health or lack of it in current Nicaraguan governance. It's borderline mythology for you guys: ....and Sir Ronald pulled he sword, e pluribus unim, from the stone and slew the great evil bear and the demon spawn of Marx.... and yea there was much singing and dancing, into the night...

Because I see things differently from you I am clueless. All that living and working in Latin America that I have done at intervals over nearly 60 years, wasted.

B

Zeitgeist · #**280** 05-03-2006, 09:16 AM

Dunno, too much KoolAid?

John Doe · #**281** 05-03-2006, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012

That was in response to Aklim, but the principle applies to others as well, which is: lots of mythology around who were the good guys and who were the bad. If anyone flirts with communism, they've gone over to the other side, an 'undead' of sorts that must be rubbed out.

Er, that was kind of my point, why are you getting sidetracked with Aklim when this may take precious time away from your re-education of Bot.....

Mythology?? May be you that needs to get busy.

BTW, did you and Zeit read yesterday that your friend Chavez unilaterally cancelled the 16 private oil operating agreements and nationalized the industry? He renegotiated the contracts where the govt. would have at least 60 % control of each joint venture, despite some agreements that had years left to run. On the contracts with six years or more left, supposedly he paid some liquidated damages. I think all but two of the companies reluctantly agreed. I heard this morning that Colombia nationalized their natural gas industry yesterday.

I will be interested to see how you guys cheerlead these efforts (which apparently Castro had some hand in encouraging) and what effect it has on our already strained relations with those countries.

cmac2012 · #**282** 05-03-2006, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Doe

Er, that was kind of my point, why are you getting sidetracked with Aklim when this may take precious time away from your re-education of Bot.....

Mythology?? May be you that needs to get busy.

BTW, did you and Zeit read yesterday that your friend Chavez unilaterally cancelled the 16 private oil operating agreements and nationalized the industry? He renegotiated the contracts where the govt. would have at least 60 % control of each joint venture, despite some agreements that had years left to run. On the contracts with six years or more left, supposedly he paid some liquidated damages. I think all but two of the companies reluctantly agreed. I heard this morning that Colombia nationalized their natural gas industry yesterday.

I will be interested to see how you guys cheerlead these efforts (which apparently Castro had some hand in encouraging) and what effect it has on our already strained relations with those countries.

That wasn't Chavez, it was Morales in Bolivia, who according to you, is my friend. This is the standard approach: I am a friend to all commies.

Here in America, we're not big on unrestricted flow of peoples from Latin countries, but we're big on unrestricted flow of capital. Nationalizing all of that could be a problem, down the road. I can understand why third worlders would have a suspicion that western companies are bleeding them dry, there's a lot of evidence to support that position.

John Doe · #**283** 05-03-2006, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012

That wasn't Chavez, it was Morales in Bolivia, who according to you, is my friend. This is the standard approach: I am a friend to all commies.

Chavez is a socialist, not a commie. You should have listened to the speach. You sure have lost your sense of humor in the last few months; I was kidding with the 'friends' remark.

Here's a link you can listen to: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5377321

cmac2012 · #**284** 05-03-2006, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

Because I see things differently from you I am clueless. All that living and working in Latin America that I have done at intervals over nearly 60 years, wasted.

I've met people who have also traveled extensively in Latin America who have a different opinion of our "civilizing" influence in Nicaragua. If you run across anything by or about Phil Roetinger, might be worth checking out. He was a CIA agent involved in the '54 overthrow of Arbenz in Guatemala and was appalled by the aftermath of that as well as the Contra adventure.*

You're familiar with Arnoldo Aleman, aka "the fat man?" President of Nic. in the late 90s, it was discovered after he was voted out that he had looted his country, second poorest in the hemisphere, of $100 million. The same percentage of GDP in the US would be $144 billion.

Aleman was part of the crowd promoted to power by Schultz et. al. He's related to the Somoza family and apparently believed he was taking back what was rightfully his.

Botnst · #**285** 05-03-2006, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012

I've met people who have also traveled extensively in Latin America who have a different opinion of our "civilizing" influence in Nicaragua. If you run across anything by or about Phil Roetinger, might be worth checking out. He was a CIA agent involved in the '54 overthrow of Arbenz in Guatemala and was appalled by the aftermath of that as well as the Contra adventure.*

You're familiar with Arnoldo Aleman, aka "the fat man?" President of Nic. in the late 90s, it was discovered after he was voted out that he had looted his country, second poorest in the hemisphere, of $100 million. The same percentage of GDP in the US would be $144 billion.

Aleman was part of the crowd promoted to power by Schultz et. al. He's related to the Somoza family and apparently believed he was taking back what was rightfully his.

Yep, been to Guatemala. Yep, they have had a long series of brutal governments since the Mayan civilization. Yep, the Spaniards didn't help matters. So there's this direct line history of autocratic brutality and in some fashion the USA has dealt with it. Sometimes with 'gunboat diplomacy' sometimes with naive love-fests sucking-up to murderers and dictators and both. Maybe we shoul dgo into that country and straighten them all out instead of dealing with them on their own terms. Right?

Mick Jagger was related to Samoza through marriage. Makes you think huh?

B

(grammatical editing)