Ah Yes... another party v. party thread... Although restoring our rights sounds nice... now... uhhh.... where did I put that copy of the Patriot Act... ah, there it is.

You can thank the PA for keeping JFK from going up in smoke.

Without discussing or opining on the merits of any of these people, I dispair of a system that encourages the public to base it's vote on the sound bites of candidates. These debates actually make that condition worse.

If you actually care about the office, the country, the candidates for the job, then you have to read their speeches. It's not easy. It takes some time, at least a few hours to cover all of them.

I can't think of any better way.

__________________
DS
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I'm the world's only true democrat, says Putin
Mon Jun 4, 2007 12:11PM EDT

MOSCOW (Reuters) - Russia's President Vladimir Putin has described himself as the world's only "pure" democrat and attacked the United States and Europe, which have criticized him, for falling short of their own ideals.

In an interview with Western media released on Monday, he rejected Western criticism that he has centralized power in the Kremlin, marginalized the opposition and increased state control over the media.

Asked whether he agreed with former German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder's description of him as an "impeccable democrat", Putin replied laughing:

"Of course I am an absolute, pure democrat. But you know the problem? It's not even a problem, it's a real tragedy. The thing is that I am the only one, there just aren't any others in the world."

Putin said the West's record on democracy was less than perfect.

"Let's look what happens in North America -- sheer horror: torture, the homeless, Guantanamo, keeping people in custody without trial or investigation," Putin said in the interview ahead of this week's summit of the Group of Eight (G-8) industrial nations.

"Look what's going on in Europe: the harsh treatment of demonstrators, the use of rubber bullets, tear gas in one capital or another, the killing of demonstrators in the streets."

got details on this? From what I read, the cops turned a drug dealer into an informant.

Google news in our friend here, do you think the quick wiretaps, extradition and other stuff came through normal channels?

Right now I'm waiting for the hype to subside. But I think an informant was key in the bust. The investigation has been going on for some time, so I don't know how quick figures into it. Wiretaps *with* a warrant have been allowed before the Patriot Act was hatched.

Why wouldn't they? Quick, warrrantless wiretaps have been available for years. They just needed approval by a judge within 72 hours after the tap began.

I think we'd be fools not to wiretap, etc. The point is, the law allowed for that, even before getting a judge's approval in emergency situations. But team Bush wanted complete liberty to run things solo.

Also, this is another example of police work keeping us safe, not the war in Iraq, as we so often hear.

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We must somehow get preference voting/instant runoff voting in place. Inertia is strong in this country towards the two parties.

One possibility that I've heard mentioned, Bloomberg/Hagel, has merit but even a $billion from Bloomberg would be hard pressed to counter the established state by state machinery of both parties.

With preference voting, the public could get familiar with voting a third party. No one wants to repeat the Perot or Nader enabling of the other side.

__________________
Te futueo et caballum tuum

1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K

I do agree on the Bloomberg ticket but people have a hatred for rich people so Bloomberg will have a problem. In Michigan Dick Devoss (Amway) lost to Jimmy Carters female equivalent, her campaingn was that he was rich and we are not. Dems are now looking at her like we repubs are looking at Bush ie. What was I thinking, I wish I had that vote back blah blah blah

Bloomberg can at least claim that he's a self made man. And for a guy with that kind of money to lean left at times is unconventional.

Hagel's an interesting guy, I hear that his positions are not playing all that well in Nebraska. He seems a lot more genuine to me than the vast majority of people in politics.

On the McLaughlin Report, McL. raised the Bloomberg/Hagel possibility, asking for a possibility rating on a 1 to 10 scale. Most everyone gave it less than one. McL. said "the correct answer is 2." I sorta like McL. -- kind of a maverick, and a Scotsman to boot.

__________________
Te futueo et caballum tuum

1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K

Get rid of the "party" nonsense all together, and put good PEOPLE in the positions...

But if we did that, who would the party-following sheep select?

It's hard to imagine what our government would be like without the parties. I do think the party system slows the process down, making time for more reflection. That can only be good. A rash decision is usually a poor decision. As far as I'm concerned slower government is almost always better.

__________________
DS
2010 CL550 - Heaven help me but it's beautiful
87 300D a labor of love
11 GLK 350 So far, so good
08 E350 4matic, Love it.
99 E320 too rusted, sold
87 260E Donated to Newgate School
www.Newgateschool.org - check it out.
12 Ford Escape, sold, forgotten
87 300D, sold, what a mistake
06 Passat 2.0T, PITA, sold

Las Vegas NV

There is truth to that... the strife created by the parties is what the fore-fathers used to insure that what they put in place didn't change (much) -- hence, "The more things change -- the more they stay the same..."