It's been nearly 30 years since I had an entomology course so I am not totally sure of this.

I think nicotinic acid binds to acetylcholine, a neurotransmitter. It works through ingestion while feeding and disables the digestive tract first and then into the circulatory system with death nearly inevitable. The reason that DDT (and subsequently developed chlorinated hydrocarbons) supplanted nicotinic acid is that it was more effective wt/wt.

Also, nicotinic acid degrades rather quickly and is non-specific. Peragro will probably NOT volunteer to eat a spoonful of nicotinic acid.

During some of the pro-hemp outbursts a report of Australians surviving a famine in, I belive, the late 1800s surfaced, saying they had subsisted largely on hemp leaf and seed. It went on to state that if you tried that with tobacco it would literally kill you and the required dosage was not that large.

__________________
1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K

Similar to HIV in bees your saying?

__________________
"It's normal for these things to empty your wallet and break your heart in the process."
2012 SLK 350
1987 420 SEL

That's one idea, but it does seem to be semi-amateur speculation.

On the same 60 Minutes piece was repeated a point I'd heard before but with more info. They were saying that other critters didn't rush in to take advantage of abandoned honey, not even other bees. As though they knew there was something diseased about it.

So maybe the new virus has more going on with it than merely weakened bee immune systems.

The article mentioned how dependent blueberries are on honey bees and that hit home. I be a blueberry eatin' foo.

__________________
1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K

Were these gay bees or bees using IV drugs?

__________________
" We have nothing to fear but the main stream media itself . . . ."- Adapted from Franklin D Roosevelt for the 21st century

OBK #55

1998 Lincoln Continental - Sold
Max 1984 300TD 285,000 miles - Sold
The Dee8gonator 1987 560SEC 196,000 miles - Sold
Orgasmatron - 2006 CLS500 90,000 miles
2002 C320 Wagon 122,000 miles
2016 AMG GTS 12,000 miles

Animals and insects know when the food is bad. All those dogs who ate the tainted China food were throwing it up....bzzzzzz maybe we should use bees to test food?

__________________
"It's normal for these things to empty your wallet and break your heart in the process."
2012 SLK 350
1987 420 SEL

I now have Leo the cat tasting MY food before I eat . . .

__________________
" We have nothing to fear but the main stream media itself . . . ."- Adapted from Franklin D Roosevelt for the 21st century

OBK #55

1998 Lincoln Continental - Sold
Max 1984 300TD 285,000 miles - Sold
The Dee8gonator 1987 560SEC 196,000 miles - Sold
Orgasmatron - 2006 CLS500 90,000 miles
2002 C320 Wagon 122,000 miles
2016 AMG GTS 12,000 miles

I think I'd be ok with a bit of nicotinic acid. It's also known as niacin or Vitimin B3. It was first derived from nicotine but folks didn't want to have people confusing it with nicotine, hence, Nicotinic acid + vitimin

I think what you're talking about is the difference between organochlorate and organophosphate compounds.

Organochlorides (OC) are compounds like DDT and Dioxin. Contrary to popular belief, they are not the most toxic compounds out there; made or natural. Interesting tid bit of info - there's probably a whole lot of natural dioxin in SoCal here just recently due to the forest fires (high heat causes it to form). OCs bioaccumulate which is the main detractor to their use. A lot of the science behind what they do and what they don't do is quite faulty; esp. the link to bird species decline.

Nevertheless, they were declared nasty and we moved on to organophosphates (OP). Organophosphates are found in nerve agents and many pesticides. The nerve agents and the pesticides both interfere with acetocholinesterase (ACE) which is an enzyme that is critical to nerve impulse propogation. Carbamates also kill ACE but by a different mechanism. OPs degrade quickly in the environment.

Both groups of chemcials are extremely useful when used within reason. Note the key words here are "within reason".

An interesting mnemonic to help you know when you've been poisoned by an OP is SLUDS. It gives you all the OP poisoning symptoms:

Salivation
Lacrimation
Urination
Defecation
Sweating

Just in case you get caught in a big spray of Malathion or Diazenon.

Nicotine is a very potent poison. Exposures to that mimic the OP symptoms. It's not attacking the immune system but rather the nicotinic acetocholine receptors. Nerves again - it's why you feel a rush when you smoke a cig, esp. if you're a non-smoker. Also a good reason to prevent little kids from eating cigarette butts unless you'd like to spend some quality time in the ER. Nicotine based pesticides work in a similar manner on bugs.

In all cases it's important to remember what Paracelsus said "the dose makes the poison".

__________________
-livin' in the terminally flippant zone

Right, should have said, "Nicotine sulfate". That's what I get for spouting before searching.

From the MSDS at http://www.sciencelab.com/xMSDS-Nicotine_Sulfate_40_in_aqueous_solution_-9926226

Section 11: Toxicological Information
Routes of Entry: Absorbed through skin. Eye contact. Ingestion.
Toxicity to Animals:
Acute oral toxicity (LD50): 125 mg/kg (Rat) (Calculated value for the mixture).
Acute dermal toxicity (LD50): 125 mg/kg (Rabbit) (Calculated value for the mixture).
Chronic Effects on Humans:
DEVELOPMENTAL TOXICITY: Classified Development toxin [POSSIBLE] [Nicotine Sulfate].
Contains material which may cause damage to the following organs: lungs, upper respiratory tract, central
nervous system (CNS).
Other Toxic Effects on Humans:
Hazardous in case of skin contact (irritant), of ingestion.
Slightly hazardous in case of eye contact (corrosive), of inhalation (lung irritant).
Non-permeator by skin. Non-hazardous in case of inhalation.
Special Remarks on Toxicity to Animals: Not available.
p. 4
Special Remarks on Chronic Effects on Humans: Not available.
Special Remarks on other Toxic Effects on Humans: Not available.
Section 12: Ecological Information
Ecotoxicity: Not available.
BOD5 and COD: Not available.
Products of Biodegradation:
Possibly hazardous short term degradation products are not likely. However, long term degradation products may
arise.
Toxicity of the Products of Biodegradation: The products of degradation are less toxic than the product itself.
Special Remarks on the Products of Biodegradation: Not available.
Section 13: Disposal Considerations
Waste Disposal:
Section 14: Transport Information
DOT Classification: CLASS 6.1: Poisonous material.
Identification: : Nicotine Sulfate, Solution (Nicotine Sulfate) UNNA: 1658 PG: II
Special Provisions for Transport: Not available.
Section 15: Other Regulatory Information
Federal and State Regulations:
Pennsylvania RTK: Nicotine Sulfate
Florida: Nicotine Sulfate
Massachusetts RTK: Nicotine Sulfate
New Jersey: Nicotine Sulfate
TSCA 8(b) inventory: Nicotine Sulfate; Water
TSCA 8(d) H and S data reporting: Nicotine Sulfate: June 1999
SARA 302/304/311/312 extremely hazardous substances: Nicotine Sulfate
CERCLA: Hazardous substances.: Nicotine Sulfate: 1 lbs. (0.4536 kg);
Other Regulations: OSHA: Hazardous by definition of Hazard Communication Standard (29 CFR 1910.1200).
Other Classifications:
WHMIS (Canada):
CLASS D-1A: Material causing immediate and serious toxic effects (VERY TOXIC).
CLASS D-2A: Material causing other toxic effects (VERY TOXIC).
DSCL (EEC):
R26/27/28- Very toxic by inhalation, in
contact with skin and if swallowed.
HMIS (U.S.A.):

Geez, there is no telling WHAT you might learn on mercedesshop.com!

__________________
" We have nothing to fear but the main stream media itself . . . ."- Adapted from Franklin D Roosevelt for the 21st century

OBK #55

1998 Lincoln Continental - Sold
Max 1984 300TD 285,000 miles - Sold
The Dee8gonator 1987 560SEC 196,000 miles - Sold
Orgasmatron - 2006 CLS500 90,000 miles
2002 C320 Wagon 122,000 miles
2016 AMG GTS 12,000 miles

I'm not eating that stuff.

__________________
-livin' in the terminally flippant zone

Proper labels do make a difference!

Jeez, now you tell me, after I've flushed all my nicotinic acid down the toilet.

__________________
1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K

I read somewhere that eating a normal pack of Bugler could kill you. Almost hard to believe but that does explain the nasty headache I got that time I ate half of one.

__________________
1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K

It depends on how much you absorb and what your health is.

Little kids eat cigarette butts and end up in the hospital. Tobacco harvesters can end up with Green Tobacco Sickness if they are not careful in how they cut and hang the plant. Nicotine is a pretty potent poison. As with any poison the dose is what matters.

__________________
-livin' in the terminally flippant zone