NPR's Fresh Air had a show the other day about torture, there's human rights group giving an award for best, most honest, media depictions of torture, the show was partly about that. They also had a guest who had done interrogations in Vietnam, Panama, and elsewhere.

The guy had the best info I'd heard on what works and what doesn't and he gives the best, dryest, and most cooly professional ***** slap to Rumsfeld on the topic that I've heard.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=15148243

He mentions what you speak of, that torture usually yields what the torturee thinks you want to hear.

__________________
Te futueo et caballum tuum

1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K

So what? Lets say they usually tell us what we want to hear but there is a chance that they will also blurt out some info that we DO want to hear and happens to be true, what did it cost us? Why should we take that chance?

__________________
01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

Because we will be running around like fools, chasing down and acting on faulty leads. Listen to the Fresh Air episode I linked to. The gentleman there knows far more about than you ever will.

And as for what it cost us, the blowback from torture is likely to be enormous. Unless we kill everyone we torture, and that has its own set of problems, the PR loss is definite whereas the intelligence gain is suspect.

__________________
Te futueo et caballum tuum

1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K

I see. Instead of no leads? Even if you get intel thru other means, you still have to chase it down.

Screw the PR loss. Why should we care about it? The other side certainly doesn't and are still going strong.

__________________
01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

The people I've listened to who seem to actually know a thing or two about this claim that you get higher quality leads w/o torture, leading to better overall results.

Dude, we lost very few people in post WW2 G and J and good PR was part of that. After 9/11, people in Iran held moments of silence at soccer games and the like. I propose building on that rather than trashing it, as Cheney is chomping at the bit to do.

People are human, it may surprise you to learn.

__________________
Te futueo et caballum tuum

1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K

I caught that show--good show. Guy wouldn't say whether waterboarding was considered torture though, remember?

Just in time John.

I'll have to listen to it again. I don't recall that part about not saying regarding water boarding. Sure you're not thinking of the new AG?

__________________
Te futueo et caballum tuum

1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K