I know this has been discussed before, but the president and his staff is on the airways again saying that we don't torture but not defining what torture is.

I can't help but think when I hear of simulated drowning and water boarding of the sadistic experiments that the Germans performed on Jews to discover how far they could go toward killing someone and still revive them. They used similar methods including cold. Of course many of the Jews died in the experiments.

I discussed this with some of the fellows that I eat lunch with the other day and one of them, who is a VietNam vet, told of the practice of taking two prisoners up in a Chopper and throwing one out so the other would talk.

I come down on the side of following the Geneva convention myself. I want us to be admirable in our actions and I want them to know they will be treated humanely so that they won't fear being taken prisoner. Plus the information gotten from torture is not reliable. They will say whatever they think you want to hear if you are pulling their fingernails off just to get you to stop.

Tom W

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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

What is torture?

Is torture ever justified?

To me, torture is when I can't get what I want. Like unable to avoid pain or inhibiting my freedom. The spectrum is wide but that's where it starts. For me.

The degree to which torture is allowed or condoned or is culturally acceptable is directly related to it's definition.

B

But if you try sometimes you just might find you get what you need

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1991 560 SEC AMG, 199k <---- 300 hp 10:1 ECE euro HV ...

1995 E 420, 170k "The Red Plum" (sold)

2015 BMW 535i xdrive awd Stage 1 DINAN, 6k, <----364 hp

1967 Mercury Cougar, 49k

2013 Jaguar XF, 20k <----340 hp Supercharged, All Wheel Drive (sold)

Psychobabble at its finest......... not an insult .....just the truth...

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Matt (SD,CA)

1984 300SD.. White/Chrome Bunts..Green

1997 2500 Dodge Ram 5.9 Cummins 12 Valve 36 PSI of Boost = 400+hp & 800+tQ .. ..Greenspeed

2004 Dodge Ram 2500 4x4 Quad Cab Cummins 5.9 H.O "596hp/1225tq" 6 spd. Man. Leather Heated seats/Loaded..Flame Red....GREENSPEED

Global warming...Doing my part, Smokin da hippies..

Fight the good fight!......

Explain to me what you mean. I think you use the label to dismiss what you haven't the horsepower to understand, Rush.

B

Most of the captives are not due to surrender people I know in the "talkin to" game tell me that torture is largely ineffective for good information.

It depends on what you mean by torture.

Listening to Roger Whittaker's greatest hits,Robert Goulet or any of Bush's "speaches".

Ohhhhh nooo not the Ludwig Van.

It was a lame attempt on my part not to discuss that any more than I had to.

I can't help but take the bait. It's comes with being a Jew and twerp, I guess. A twerpish Jew?

Speaking of pork, I underwent the boat handling portion of mandatory boat retraining (abridged version every-3rd year or so, big enchilada every 9 or 10 years). The written part I totally f**ked-up last week -- the rules of the road at sea and river navigation rules (vary by river system and sometimes within a river), terminology, etc. I did very well on the trailering road course last week (comes of having trailered horses before Mrs B & I had kids). I really needed the training -- I hadn't realized how much I'd forgotten.

Anyway, on my way to the launch I stopped at a stop and rob just south of Abbeville heading towards Intracoastal City to buy lunch. I had never stopped at this store before and I rather enjoy checking-out the boudin, which is quite variable.

Comprehensive list here: http://www.boudinlink.com/

'nuther site: http://www.southernboudintrail.com/introduction.shtml


Well, this little no-name place was run by a Chinese family. Now this is cool -- Chinese family that barely speaks English living in the heart of Cajun-French speaking Louisiana, selling their own pork (ish) boudin variant. It was quite good. Lots of organ meet mixed with muscle meat, low on onions, high on cayenne and garlic. Not ricey (surprisingly, to me). Low on grease. Great texture.

Are there Jewish Cajuns? I don't know. Jewish New Orleanians have been there almost since the beginning. I was surprised to learn that there have been Jews in rural Mississippi for many generations. http://www.commarts.com/CA/exhibit/070405/

Intracoastal City, Louisiana
From Wikipedia
Intracoastal City has various port facilities and some permanent residents in Vermilion Parish, Louisiana, 13 miles (21 km) south of Abbeville. It stands on the west bank of the Vermilion River at its junction with the Gulf Intracoastal Waterway. Intracoastal City is located at [show location on an interactive map] 29°47′03″N, 92°20′22″W1.

Its attractions include heliports, a shrimp docking facility, and dry docks. As it stands on the coast of the Gulf of Mexico somewhat remote from major settlements, it is often used by the National Hurricane Center as a breakpoint for tropical cyclone warnings and watches which affect the bayous of eastern Louisiana but not the west of the state. It also plays a major part in Louisiana's oil and gas industry by supporting offshore personnel, platforms and drilling rigs.


Abbeville
http://www.vermilion.org/abbeville.php
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abbeville,_Louisiana

We might've found out if what we do is torture, but around a week or so ago the Supreme Court refused to hear the case of a German detainee who claimed he was tortured. The government said hearing the case would reveal secrets, so the Court refused to hear the case.

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1984 300TD

Now you have just made me hungry AND homesick!

When asked pointedly whether he had condoned torturing terrorism suspects, the President was heard to say, "I did not have torture with that man." Hey, that's good enough for me!

I no longer aopprove of torture. That's why I finally quit my job and got a new one.

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" We have nothing to fear but the main stream media itself . . . ."- Adapted from Franklin D Roosevelt for the 21st century

OBK #55

1998 Lincoln Continental - Sold
Max 1984 300TD 285,000 miles - Sold
The Dee8gonator 1987 560SEC 196,000 miles - Sold
Orgasmatron - 2006 CLS500 90,000 miles
2002 C320 Wagon 122,000 miles
2016 AMG GTS 12,000 miles

The real test is what is "torture" some people think that the act of holding a person against their will is torture and it goes up from there.