It doesn't matter what your take on Pres. Bush is, it could be anyone, but this ridiculous publicity stunt will do nothing to alleviate the problem of the airlines over booking and scheduling too many flights to depart out of the airports at the same time.
It is airline mismanagement of their own resources causing the delays.

We've got airlines mothballing planes to save money on crews, maintenance, and fuel, allowing the overbooking of seats with the reality that people are going to travel anyway for the holiday to see relatives and that "people will just have to leave earlier and allow more time".
A few people get bumped, and the airline doesn't fly with any empty seats.

The article suggests flying 90% full for the holidays. I wonder if any of you flying on commercial planes will see any empty seats.

The skies are simply not that crowded that opening up Military Jetways will make any difference at all, even if you did it permanently.

Now, if you said we're opening up military runways for commercial traffic, that would do something.
Of course, that would never happen.





WASHINGTON (AP) -- Ahead of the holiday travel crunch, President Bush ordered steps Thursday to reduce air traffic congestion and long delays that have left passengers stranded.

President Bush outlined a plan to reduce air traffic congestion on Thursday.

The most significant change is that the Pentagon will open unused military airspace from Florida to Maine to create "a Thanksgiving express lane" for commercial airliners. It will be open next week for five days -- Wednesday through Sunday -- for the busiest days of Thanksgiving travel.

Bush said the problems with delayed flights are "clear to anybody who's been traveling. Airports are very crowded. Travelers are being stranded and flights are delayed, sometimes with a full load of passengers sitting on the runway for hours.

"These failures carry some real costs for the country, not just in the inconvenience they cause but in the business they obstruct and the family gatherings they cause people to miss,' the president said. "We can do better."

The new plan also will be in effect for the Christmas travel season, and White House press secretary Dana Perino said the Federal Aviation Administration was imposing a holiday moratorium on nonessential maintenance projects, allowing all FAA personnel and equipment to be focused on keeping flights on time.

Further, the Department of Transportation will propose doubling the bump fee that airlines must pay to travelers who buy tickets but wind up without a seat. The penalty now is $200 or $400, depending on how long the passenger has been inconvenienced. The proposed increase would make the fee $400 to $800. Perino said that rule, if it becomes final, wouldn't be in place until next summer's travel season.

Further, officials said the FAA would take other steps to increase efficiency such as rerouting airspace, using technology to fill unused space in the air and on the ground, and using more precise routes for takeoffs and landings.

Another proposed rule would deem the operation of a chronically delayed flight -- defined as a flight that operates more than 15 minutes late more than 70 percent of the time -- to be an "unfair and deceptive practice." That designation carries with it substantial monetary penalties.

The president said other steps were under consideration to reduce crowded skies, such as charging airlines higher landing and takeoff fees at peak hours, and auctioning off landing and takeoff rights to the highest bidder.

Domestic carriers are expected to fly roughly 27 million passengers worldwide over 12 days beginning November 16, with planes about 90 percent full, according to the Air Transport Association.

Several airline executives, testifying before the House Transportation Committee Thursday on holiday travel prospects, said they were preparing to care for passengers in the event of weather or air traffic control-related delays.

Jetblue Airways CEO Dave Barger acknowledged that "we let our customers down" last February when hundreds of passengers were stranded on parked JetBlue planes for up to 10 1/2 hours. "In fact, to be candid, we failed them."

He said that with added deicing equipment and crew and expanded customer service personnel, "JetBlue is ready for the holidays."

But Rep. John Mica, R-Florida, said there was "some very bad news for people who think there is going to be a quick cure to congestion." He said that even if everything went smoothly, implementation of the next-generation air traffic control system that should reduce disruptions was at least 15 years off.

Bush, on September 27, announced that his administration was looking at ways to reduce air traffic congestion. The president urged Congress to look at legislation to modernize the FAA, and instructed Peters to report back to him quickly about ways to ensure that air passengers are treated appropriately and progress is made to ease congestion.

Peters said at the time she was asking airlines to meet to formulate a plan to improve scheduling at New York's John F. Kennedy International Airport, one of the nation's busiest. If no solution is found, she said, the department is prepared to issue a scheduling reduction order.

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85' 300D No inspection, No registration fees, Cheap insurance
"If my calculations are correct, when this baby hits 88 miles per hour, you're going to see some serious %$&^."

All airlines have a fixed number of aircraft.

By definition, every one of these aircraft flies every single day, unless it's in for scheduled maintenance. None of the serviceable aircraft are parked. The are all put into service because any revenue is better than no revenue.

On the holidays, there are no additional aircraft to be utilized. The same number of aircraft exist on the Wednesday before Thanksgiving as exist today.

Therefore, the routes that are flown by the various aircraft are not "more crowded" during a holiday, and the suggestion that military airways will help alleviate overcrowding is preposterous.

But, truthfully, what would you expect from GWB........except more stupidity?

Are you saying he is a moron?

Tom W

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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

mo·ron /ˈmɔrɒn, ˈmoʊr-/ –noun
1. a person who is notably stupid or lacking in good judgment.
2. Psychology. a person of borderline intelligence in a former classification of mental retardation, having an intelligence quotient of 50 to 69.

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85' 300D No inspection, No registration fees, Cheap insurance
"If my calculations are correct, when this baby hits 88 miles per hour, you're going to see some serious %$&^."

.........one from column one...........thank you very much.........

I have found no compelling argument that disqualifies #2.

I tend to agree with you on this, and was prepared to say that the only variable would be private plane traffic, but then realized that they typically fly at a lower altitude than commercial airliners. As such, I must reluctantly concur that our esteemed President is indeed...a moron.

Good input.

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'06 E320 CDI
'17 Corvette Stingray Vert

Are some of the Radar installations still equipped with vacuum tube equipment, or did they finally get those all updated?

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It is a truism that almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so. Robert A. Heinlein


09 Jetta TDI
1985 300D

It's time for the "Let's Say..." Game !!

Let’s say airport “A”, and the ATC at airport “A” can handle 30 incoming flights an hour. That’s one flight every two minutes. Not a problem.
Now let’s say that the FAA states there has to be a minimum time spacing of at least one minute between arriving flights. OK - Not a problem.
And we have enough gates at airport “A” to have one gate being vacated every two minutes. That’s good. No problem.

So now let’s say we have flights coming from airports “B”, “C” and “D” and they all are lined up and spaced so that they are two minutes apart heading into airport “A”. Again – Not a problem.

This is all real easy in a perfect world. And this is also how many of the airport/flight loads and ATC requirements are calculated in the real world today.

So now we have everything at airport “A” running just peachy-keen.

Here’s just a few of the contributing factors:
In an effort to make money - The airlines will attempt fill every two minute slot with a full load going into airport “A”. (Sounds like a good business plan.)
In an effort to operate safely – The ATC at airport “A” will try to keep everyone two minutes apart. (Shouldn’t be a problem.)
In an effort to operate smoothly – The airlines using airport “A” will try to vacate a gate every two minutes. (Ok – sounds good.)
In an effort to keep you safe in the sky – TSA will try to get everything checked so that a gate is vacated with a full load every two minutes. (Of course ! After all. The only thing more important than your safety to those folks is keeping you on time.)
Let’s add the Dobbs trucks and the fuel crews doing their best to keep things moving smoothly. (Never been a problem with food or fuel deliveries in the history of catering or OPEC. Thus - Should be fine.)
And, God forbid we leave out the most important cog in the machine. All the passengers and all the folks related to getting said passengers to airport “A,” are doing everything they can to keep things running smoothly, and on time.

Sounds fool proof to me !!

But actually - Airport “A” is a great big open gear box just waiting for a loose wrench to fall into it.

I’m sure that every member of this forum can come up with all kinds of “wrenches” that they’ve either experienced or know of, that can (and do) cause airport “A” to come to a screeching halt.

The way I see it. If we posted them on this thread, by next week we would have enough reasons (or wrenches in the gears) as to why the airport/airline/faa/atc/airplane/taxi/baggage/tsa/istayedataholidayinnexpresslastnight system doesn’t work the way we always want it to. Or think that it should.

From such a list/thread, maybe then we could come up with someone to blame for it all.

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1980 300D - Veggie Burner !

Thank you, WVO we were waiting....

You saw "Pushing Tin," didn't you? I'll be by around 2:00p.m. for my ride with the Mrs. and Svetlana.....sorry for the detour folks.

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"It's normal for these things to empty your wallet and break your heart in the process."
2012 SLK 350
1987 420 SEL

Saw the flick a few years back. Good one, for sure.

I PM'd you on the other line.

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1980 300D - Veggie Burner !

For me, its been starters on A320's.

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It is a truism that almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so. Robert A. Heinlein


09 Jetta TDI
1985 300D