Utah students hide guns, head to class - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

aklim · #31 02-21-2008, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BAVBMW

Ok, you got me there. When viewed from a greater perspective, that makes sense. I'll admit, I was only looking at it from a personal point of view, whereas I carry openly, making it a deterrnet from engaging me. I wasn't really thinking about society as a whole.

MV

That was something we learnt in our CCW class. DON'T CARRY OPENLY. DON'T wear a shirt that says "They'll have my gun, etc, etc". After all, If I think you are packing, who do you think I will go for first? You want to blend in and keep the perp guessing till he tips his hand and NOT before. You want him on edge.

BAVBMW · #32 02-21-2008, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

That was something we learnt in our CCW class. DON'T CARRY OPENLY. DON'T wear a shirt that says "They'll have my gun, etc, etc". After all, If I think you are packing, who do you think I will go for first? You want to blend in and keep the perp guessing till he tips his hand and NOT before. You want him on edge.

I suppose in urban enviroments, that may be the best plan. I spend more of my free time (when outside of my home) in wide open areas, where open carry is the norm, and anyone approaching within, say, 100yds, kinda expects that you would look at them as a threat. The few times I've had suspicious circumstances, merely making it known that I was carrying has been enough to cause the suspicious parties to go elsewhere.

Although, to be honest, in my original post, I was speaking more for how I thought the world should be run, not how to best deal with the one we've got. Suppose I should have made that more clear. In my perfect world, everyone who wanted to could carry openly, those that didn't want to, could carry concealed, or not at all, I just think that each person should be able to choose for themself.

MV

kmaysob · #33 02-21-2008, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gurkha

Are you sure about the sanity of the person carrying the gun. He probably will get a megalomaniac moment and shoot others just because he had an argument of sorts. I know gun restrictions in schools haven't worked but then should all students be packing?

So what stops the same student from stabbing a class mate to death with a pen?

aklim · #34 02-21-2008, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmaysob

So what stops the same student from stabbing a class mate to death with a pen?

Good penmanship?

tankdriver · #35 02-21-2008, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by connerm

I can't tell yet if you are being serious. Yes. Any student who wants to carry a weapon should be able to do so. Read the second amendment (no age or mental competency restrictions)

You can't seriously be suggesting an 8 year old be allowed to carry a gun, or a deranged psychopath...

I don't want students carrying guns because they aren't mature enough.

I'm not sure deterence is much of a factor. Legally or not, anyone could be carrying a gun already. Convenience stores still get robbed even though there are quite likely to have guns

aklim · #36 02-21-2008, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tankdriver

I don't want students carrying guns because they aren't mature enough.

I'm not sure deterence is much of a factor. Legally or not, anyone could be carrying a gun already.

OK. How do you determine who is then? What if that student goes off campus and is legal there? You still think he isn't mature enough? At what age or point do you determine maturity?

But most aren't so your odds are good when it comes to finding someone that isn't. Hence the deterrent factor, in most cases is not really present.

kmaysob · #37 02-21-2008, 11:57 PM

If done right it can be good. NUMBER ONE: you are required to be 21 to have a ccw permit. I think teachers of all grades should have the right to carry provided the pass a background check and the ccw class. The school will know when you are and are not carrying. The requirment should be 21(NO highschool students)btw i am only 20. That said, you would have to be in college to carry as a student and of the age 21.AGAIN, the school would know when you are and are not,and everyone would go through a metal detecor. Im sure there are i few good details i have forgotten because i am tired, but thats my thoughts.

cmac2012 · #38 02-22-2008, 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by connerm

This is exactly the kind of person you would be praying for to save your ass If you were stuck in a bad situation.

You'd be running for your life, knocking people over and he'd probably be thinking about taking available cover and acquiring a sight picture.

Nothing wrong with taking responsibility for your own safety.

Your brief and unsophisticated comment will unleash a firestorm on this thread.

You're pretty certain of yourself. I'd hate to be in a fix where I wanted a gun and didn't have one. I'd also hate to have to babysit a pistol 24/7 for years and years and never have a need for it.

It's not stretch to conclude that for at least some people who carry a gun at all times, it becomes a solution in search of a problem.

A retired San Jose Fire Captain got himself into some serious grief when he shot an fleeing shoplifting suspect in a parking lot. I forget how many years he was sentenced to, but when you're 65 plus, any years in jail is not good.

connerm · #39 02-22-2008, 07:08 AM

The only things I am certain of is that without a weapon, I have little chance of defending myself or my family from a pcp-crazed maniac kicking-in my front door, or a suicidal maniac who brings a shotgun to an unarmed herd of people. I am also absolutely certain that I would love to babysit a pistol for years without ever needing it. A firearm is only a tool. I have a shop full of tools with which I am proficient. I don't babysit any of them, but know how to use them when necessary. I am also certain that it would be highly unlikely that I would count on you to be responsible for my safety. I write the last sentence respectfully.

connerm · #40 02-22-2008, 07:25 AM

In this country, is an 8 year old entitled to freedom of speech, or freedom to assemble with other 8 year olds? Is an 8 year old entitled to draw a picture of whatever they want?

aklim · #41 02-22-2008, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012

I'd hate to be in a fix where I wanted a gun and didn't have one.

I'd also hate to have to babysit a pistol 24/7 for years and years and never have a need for it.

Which do you hate less?

pt145ss · #42 02-22-2008, 11:12 AM

Gurkha and others here seem to be suffering from delusions of grander which were undoubtedly shaped by our biased media in this country.

http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/elder110702.asp

Conviction rates sorted by crime for those who have a CHL in Texas:
http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administration/crime_records/chl/ConvictionRatesReport2005.pdf

OldPokey · #43 02-22-2008, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gurkha

But you do enjoy the gore and blood of course, even better if the students are all Muslims

Wow. Way to play the Religion Card.

rwthomas1 · #44 02-22-2008, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gurkha

CCW and non violent past still is no guarantee that the person won't loose his marbles and go on a shooting spree. When the other party is also packing, it would be OK Corral all around.

Since you are a gun owner and enjoy collecting then should I be concerned about you? When are you planning on loosing your marbles and going on a shooting spree? Since you already own the guns I don't see how a lack of a CCW permit is going to stop you?

Much to the chagrin and disbelief of the anti-gun people shall issue CCW laws have shown to cause NO INCREASE in crime or problems from the enactment of the laws.

Again, to all the people who are afraid of guns, don't like them, don't like the idea that people can carry thats just too bad and a bit unrealistic. There are CCW permit holders around you EACH AND EVERY DAY. You just don't know it. The guy next to you on the train, your coworker, that little old lady at the supermarket, and each and every liquor and convenience store clerk, etc. The guns are already there and hey, guess what? The gloom and doom you are refering to isn't happening.

Regarding the maturity of college students and CCW it should be a non-issue. The process of getting a CCW will shake out the immature quite handily. Most CCW states require 21years of age. Are you now going to tell me that 21 is not enough? We already send 18yr olds to foreign countries armed with rifles to KILL people even though they can't drink a beer legally. When is one mature enough? 30? 40? When the gov't says we are?

The report is the typical newsmedia over reaction to the one state that happens to allow CCW on their campuses. Whats the big deal? Has anyone been shot? Is lawlessness breaking out in Utah? Nope, it isn't. Much ado about nothing. As usual.

RT

KarTek · #45 02-22-2008, 01:53 PM

I'm not to eloquent in arguing a point but reading through this and looking at the whole situation I can pull a few "bullet" points out as basic truths:

1. People seem to think that passing a law or banning a particular item will magically eliminate a problem or cause others to immediately comply.

2. Criminals will ALWAYS have access to dangerous weapons of some kind or another or come up with creative ways to kill or injure others regardless of the law. That's why they're criminals...

3. "Gun free" zones attract criminals because they are low threat, target rich environments.

4. Individuals who go through rigorous CCW training are less likely to fire indescriminately and more likely to hit their targets.

5. Most of these shooters are reasonably intelligent. If the possibility exists that they will be gunned down within seconds of starting trouble, they will be less likely to do so.

"I feel less safe knowing that a stranger sitting beside me in class may have a gun in his or her backpack," Said one girl in the story. Hello, wake up to the fact that ANYONE around you at any time might be packing. Again, a law or lack therof doesn't make things magically appear and disappear. Sometimes even good people will bend the law for their own safety.