The Germans tried hard to get the US to understand they didn't find Curveball credible. The US didn't care.


You forgot pre-Crusades, and pre-Roman conquests, not to mention Christian attempts to conquer the world, which not only has been more effective than Muslim conquest, but still holds control of most of the territory they conquered. The Crusaders came from European countries, converted by the sword to Christianity. And, even worse, the insidious Christians still hold those lands.
Gimme a break. Talk about paying for the sins of the father. When do we invade Mongolia since Genghis Khan tried to conquer the world?

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1984 300TD

As tankdriver hinted at, the Germans were not pushing for war like the US and British governments were, quite the opposite. What I was really talking about is how Europe has been able to infiltrate and round up suspected terror cells on its own territory. They seem pretty good at that and that should be our priority as well. Only a retard would truly believe that invading an unrelated foreign country will somehow keep the terrorists that attacked us from attacking us again, yet this was the logic when going into Iraq. I'm not making any armchair quarterback decisions after the fact here. I was strongly against the war before it even started and I was very disappointed with how the majority of the American public let itself get so brainwashed, even labeling anti-war people as unpatriotic... truly disgusting.

Clinton certainly shares some of the blame for not dealing with Al Qaeda more effectively sooner, but the bottom line is that it happened 9 months after Bush's inauguration and he had plenty of time to start any intelligence reforms that were needed. He didn't even try and he resisted changes and inquires into what happened even long after 9/11 to hide his true incompetence.

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2004 VW Jetta TDI (manual)

Past MB's: '96 E300D, '83 240D, '82 300D, '87 300D, '87 420SEL

We agree on the Al Qaeda part. However, I do question the "most muslims" on the part where they seem to be relatively silent about the perversion of their religion. Unless, of course, they are tacitly support it which would explain that part about being silent.

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01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

Do you publicly speak out every time "your" group does something you don't agree with? I know I don't. I consider myself an environmentalist and it pisses me off when militant environmentalists burn down luxury homes or Hummer dealerships, but I don't go around news networks and publicly condemn it. I just gripe about it to my wife for a while and we both agree it's despicable and that's about it. I think most muslims, at least based on the surveys I've seen felt that way about 9/11 as well but couldn't really do much about it.

I think one of the main reasons so many democrats in congress voted for the war was the public's pressure. The public bought into the arguments for war and they were hungry to strike someone, anyone really. And the thinking pretty much was that anyone who was against the war was unpatriotic.

I think you missed the page where the lies were discussed. I think it was pretty well covered.

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2004 VW Jetta TDI (manual)

Past MB's: '96 E300D, '83 240D, '82 300D, '87 300D, '87 420SEL

Lets see now. We are talking about a group that wants a boycott of products from a place because of a cartoonist? They seem to be very quick to take insult of their religion and make a stink about it. You don't think that if they thought that what OBL was doing was against their religion they would be just as quick to say something? Somehow I am finding it hard to believe.

I really don't give a hoot why you did something you shouldn't do. Do you care why Spitzer did what he did? I don't.

So you are saying that the whole list of stuff the UN gave him after the Gulf War to dispose of or account for is a bunch of lies?

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01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

If it's OK to judge entire societies by a few hooligans demonstrating on the streets, then you better hope that muslim countries are not looking when anarchists in the West are breaking windows and burning tires around G8 meetings or when we have KKK gatherings here in the US.

So you're saying going to Iraq was something we shouldn't have done. I agree.

No I'm not saying that at all. In fact no one here is denying that Saddam had chemical weapons in the 80's and early 90's. The lies were the reasons for the need to invade Iraq that we were repeatedly told in 2002 and 2003.

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2004 VW Jetta TDI (manual)

Past MB's: '96 E300D, '83 240D, '82 300D, '87 300D, '87 420SEL

A terrorist is always a freedom fighter in someone else's view. The US has supported a number of so-called "freedom fighters" in recent history as well. The mujahadeens fighting the Soviets in Afghanistan is only one example. Talk about a fall-out from that "program".

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2004 VW Jetta TDI (manual)

Past MB's: '96 E300D, '83 240D, '82 300D, '87 300D, '87 420SEL

Yes but they are the enemy, who cares what we did or didn't do in the past. So what we screwed up? Are we supposed to role over because of that and let them kill us?

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2016 Corvette Stingray 2LT
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

The democrats want energy independence?!
Give me a break!
Energy independence is easy.
Build nuclear electrical power plants ( not popular with the loony left)
Drill in ANWAR (n not popular with the loony left)
Drill in the Gulf of Mexico ( NIMBY)
We could completely replace Military East Oil in 10 years, or less if we really wanted to.

Who blocks all these ideas while telling us they are for the little guy?
Who is happy at higher gas prices? ( The answer is the same)

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1982 300SD " Wotan" ..On the road as of Jan 8, 2007 with Historic Tags

Nuclear does nothing for our oil needs.
ANWAR doesn't have that much oil and wouldn't even replace our Saudi imports.
Already drilling in Gulf of Mexico.

The answer is conservation and biofuels, preferably 2nd generation, aka BTL.

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2004 VW Jetta TDI (manual)

Past MB's: '96 E300D, '83 240D, '82 300D, '87 300D, '87 420SEL

.

That is typical thinking for a right wing guy.

What I said was we do not need all this excess.

Public transportation
Alternative fuels
Wind and solar power
Reducing the amount we consume

That is the way I would suggest we get to energy independence.
Your nut job ideas of nuclear power plants and drilling for oil in
the gulf just show your limited way of thinking.

It is not all about money and power.
You do not need a Hummer.

And quit blaming others for your problems.
I have said it in the first post.
Right wing nut jobs trying to blame Democrats.
And you prove it in your post.

Your self centered views have no end.
Like a little child that just wants more and more.
Where does it end ?
First we conquer the middle east for its oil.
Then we have a timber shortage so we take over Canada?

Realize that you are the problem, and that you have to make the
changes that are necessary to solve the problem.


RichC

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When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace.
Jimi Hendrix

Thanks for the personal attack and analysis.

I would bet my carbon footprint is smaller than yours.
Lets take your pie-in-the-sky idealism one point at a time:
Public transportation---Will work for some, but not all. Unless you are going to mandate that people live only in cities and get permission to live in rural areas. In my job, I carry a radioactive device for work--I am not permitted to use public transportation.

Alternative fuels--OK, but there is a price to pay--Have you seen the rise in corn products since so much is used for ethanol production? Is this cost accounted for?

Wind and solar---OK, but realistically speaking, what % of the solution do they represent? If you cannot see how nuclear power can save oil, than how will wind and solar contribute? Also the Elitist will not allow wind farms to be built if it spoils theie view--think Kennedy and Streisand.
I am all for reducing the amount of power I consume. I drive fuel efficient cars- ( No Hummer--hate them!), but it would be arrogant of me to determine how much fuel and energy you require. Just as it is arrogant of Al Gore to use waste energy while telling me to conserve. My house is about 1200 SF so my impact is not large.
The problem is government types--people who think government should contrrol all resources and parcel them out as they deem appropriate that is the problem.

You say we conquer the middle easr for its oil---so how much oil have we taken in our time in Iraq?

For the foreseable future OIL is the energy source. We need to be loking at alternatives, but solar and wind are not nearly sufficient. We keep hearing that practical electric cars are almost here. But I've been hearing that for 40 years, and still electric cars are impractical for most people. Proponents of electric cars still have not solved the dispoasl issue--so it is simply ignored when they talk so glowingly about them.

Do you really think the Chinese, with their awakening industry will go solar and wind powered?


Do you see yourself as a left-wing nut??

Your impratical utopianism makes me laugh!

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1982 300SD " Wotan" ..On the road as of Jan 8, 2007 with Historic Tags

There was absolutely no personal attack in what I said.
I did attack your points of view and what you said.

I think it would be extremely hard for your carbon footprint to be smaller.

We run our vehicles on waste vegetable oil.
One of which was rescued from the junk yard.

Our home is all electric, and we buy electricity from Green Mountain energy, and is generated solely by wind and water power.
Where they do use any fossil fuels they make up the carbon points
by planting trees.

We recycle, reduce, and reuse, what we can.
Which is allot.

I wear lots of second hand clothes.

Most of our food comes from local grown, organic sources.

And I have produced a fertilizer called Tera Preta that
actually traps carbon for use in growing plants.

We are getting close to being carbon negative.

It is not pie-in-the-sky idealism.
I put effort into what I think is right.
Public transportation cuts down on energy use.
Get you and your radioactive device a bicycle.

I agree, ethanol is a joke, money making scam.

Enough solar energy falls on the planet in one day to power
the world for a year.

There are some idiots in this world.

I am not for big government.
I do not need the government to play mommy and daddy for me.
The government is what has gotten us into this war and this energy mess.

That is what was in the story by the general you quoted.

Go rent and watch a movie called Who Killed the Electric Car.
Then get back with me on that one.

Yes, especially after we use up all the oil.

No, it is people like you that have to put me in some sort of category.
Personally I am a realist.
I try my best to see the world for what it is,
and to make the best decisions I can for all involved.

I am honest, wise, and content.
How well do you sleep at night ?

Wow, that is not arrogant at all !
Your fear based, self centered, ego driven, hedonism is disgusting to me.

My way, or what you call utopianism,
is not impractical,
I live it.
And many others do too.


RichC

.

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When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace.
Jimi Hendrix

Burning veggie instead of diesel does not reduce your carbon emissions. Think about it.

B

Bot, you got half of the quiz.

The Falcon was the most successful new car launch until its descendant, the original Mustang.

The most successful new car introduction prior to Falcon was also a Ford product. People rioted to get even a glimpse. Salesman wrote orders with only a picture of one. It was front page news for days.

Need another hint?

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1982 300SD " Wotan" ..On the road as of Jan 8, 2007 with Historic Tags