What a sicko.

It is unfortunate that some of the ppl that pulled up and were witnesses to the event were not packing.

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Jim

More of the same Our Little Boy Stopped Breathing . . . while he was tied to a tree.

Even if they were and legally allowed to shoot, would they?

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Aklim,
you bring up a good point...

I can see a situation like this, Mr. CCW and his wife drives up and sees this taking place. now Mr. CCW knows that his life is not in danger, and knows (ccw classes =) that he really has no legal authority to touch what is going on.
Mr. CCW also knows that the child-beater might be carrying
If Mr. CCW had a firearm, could he have fired a "warning shot" or brandished his weapon (?) to get the beater's attention - thats all we wanted in the first place anyway. "warning shots" are not in any police/law enforcement doctrine, but Mr. CCW is not a cop - just a dude who wanted to stop something from happening. In this case, Mr. CCW might get a ticket/night in jail for discharging a firearm in a place where it is illegal to do so (many communities/townships...) but if it were that or the life of the child, I'd do it. easy for me to say now that its all over...

interesting...

-John

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2009 Kia Sedona
2009 Honda Odyssey EX-L
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(insert Mercedes here)

Husband, Father, sometimes friend =)

I wasn't paying much attention to this part of my CCW class but IIRC, if your life is in danger or you can reasonable show that someone's life is in danger, you can use your firearm. If you were trying to kill my wife BUT NOT ME, I could still shoot you if I thought her life was in danger.

However, it brings up the question of "what did I hit?". Now if I hit the guy, there would be paperwork, questions, explanations, etc, etc. Would Mr CCW want to get involved with that? You KNOW a shooting will not be just a 5 min deal and you walk. As a witness, I can walk away and say "I wasn't paying attention.". As a shooter, it is different. OTOH, if I did shoot the kid by accident, I know there will be hell to pay. I am not sure that I would be covered by the "Good Samaritan Law" either.

Now you have all this hassle on one hand and Mr CCW on the other side. It is going to be a tough sell to get him to pull out his gun for a total stranger.

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Dude's beating a small child to death? No question, dude gets the bullet and I'll take my chances with the jury. All the witnesses there just make it easier in court. If I can't protect the kid, what good am I?

Use of deadly force can be justified when it is used to prevent imminent serious injury or death, to oneself or another. It can be raised as a defense to both criminal charges or civil actions.

What we learned in shooting is that while you can hit 10 out of 10 beer can targets 100 yards away, when the adrenaline is pumping, if you can hit 2 out of 5 at 20 feet, you are good. While you aim at the guy and you MIGHT hit something or someone else, [Dirty Harry Mode] you've got to ask yourself one question: Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya, punk? [/Dirty Harry Mode]

Assuming you ONLY hit the guy, going to court is no small thing. Been there, done that, don't want to do it again. That time wasn't for shooting someone even. It is a hassle that you are asking someone to get involved in. You and me fighting is one thing. Once a gun gets involved, it is a whole different and more ugly matter.

I wouldn't rate myself on protecting that kid. No relationship to me so I am not obligated to stick my neck out to do more than simple measures. What you are asking is no small matter. If it were my wife or my kid, no question. A total stranger and I have to evaluate it a whole lot more. Now if I were a cop, that is different. For Joe Citizen, whose job it is not, it is a whole different thing. If you were beating somebody up, man, woman or child, I could see calling 911 or trying to get you to stop. Asking me to use deadly force and opening up that big can of snakes is an entirely different matter.

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And you could probably get away with it ASSUMING you only hit the perp and not something or someone else. But would people want to go thru the hassle? I don't think that many can say it won't cross their mind. I know it would cross my mind to pull out my gun in the defense of a total stranger.

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My biggest fear would be missing. I would probably go with the "hard to miss if ya stick the barrel in his ear" theory. Man beating an adult has potential for a lotta gray. Man severly beating a small child = no gray. If that's what it takes to keep the child alive, so be it. And I hope someone would step up to save my kids even if they did not know the kids.

Amen to that. Every witness there had a tire iron in the trunk of their car. By all accounts this POS was so intent in beating the child that he hardly paid attention to anyone around him. A nice blow to the back of the head with the tire iron would get his attention. I'd be more than willing to take my chances with that jury.

I haven't been able to stop thinking about this story since I read it. It is deeply disturbing.

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Jonathan

2011 Mazda2
2000 E320 4Matic Wagon
1994 C280 (retired)

Problem is that the guy is deranged. He was trying to beat the devil out of the kid literally. Do you think he will stand still and let you stick the barrel in his ear?

I don't see much of a difference, if any. I view a life as a life be it man, woman or child. I personally don't see one as more or less than the other but that is just me.

You do realize that is asking a lot. You are not asking for a $10 loan. I can honestly say that in that situation, I would call 911 but for me to take it further and pull a gun, it would have to be family. You would be asking that person to take the responsibility for where that bullet went after it left the muzzle and also all the heat that went along with it. I can't ask that of you or anyone to defend my family and won't.

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A guy was high on PCP and it took 21 bullets to stop him. When something like that happens, it might just be that same situation and you might be crapping that tire iron for a week.

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04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
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From the story it sounds like he didn't reallty even pay much attention to the people trying to stop him. If he was high on PCP, you probably could hit him all day with small effect. As to 21 bullets, depends on the locations of the wounds. Head shots have a much higher mortality rate. And the size/age does make a difference to me. Two adults may have been having a mutual altercation prior to witnesses arriving and while not justifying the beating, at least explains a bit of it. A grown man pounding a toddler is significantly different. The unarmed child is no real threat to the man and never was a threat. Pure stronger person against defenseless child.
This is a call we all hope never to have to make. We each have our own experiences we use to make our judgements and have to live with the results.
I would have a hard time living with myself if I did not do everything I could to stop the attack. I hope I would jump in there and do something.

As someone who is torn on the issue, but frequently leans toward the pro-life position in certain circumstances, this has to be the worst segue I have ever seen interjecting an opinion on the subject where it is not merited, and is disrespectful to the deceased victim.