FWIW - I have never sold anything on ebay and have generally resisted such....

well now, with all this discussion (as reasoned and logical as it all is here), I am even LESS likely to list something on ebay. Fees, feedback, holding payment(!), shill bidding...F-that.

If I need something sold, I'm on craigslist.

__________________
2009 Kia Sedona
2009 Honda Odyssey EX-L
12006 Jetta Pumpe Duse
(insert Mercedes here)

Husband, Father, sometimes friend =)

Does he pay promptly or drag it out?

__________________
01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

That's a good test. However, what is promptly?

If you say in your advertisement that you require payment within five days (for example), the buyer either keeps his end of the bargain or he does not. You cannot penalize the buyer for paying on the fifth day, since these are your own terms.

If the buyer waits until the sixth day, you consider it non-paid. That means that the buyer did not keep his end of the bargain, the payment to you.

No, you cannot peanalize him for doing paying at the very last second. What I want to see is whether you, as a buyer, will pay within the due date or whether I have to chase you down after the due date or whether I have to relist it, etc, etc. So, if you have a habit of paying on say day 6-20, I want to know if that is who I am dealing with. If so, I will want to take you off the bidding list. If you are they kind that pays instantly thru 2359 of the 5th day, I want to know that too. On occasion, I have sent the buyer the goods before payment because I cannot be in town to send it out at the time AND they have an excellent track record.

__________________
01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

There are SO many ways an eBay selling experience can turn into a nightmare. I had a buyer bid on four old VW bug steel rims and then threaten a dispute and negative feedback when they were received because "they are rusty and one is wider than the others." All of these things, and more, were clearly stated in the item description, and yet this buyer demanded a full refund (incl. shipping which ran about as much as the rims sold for, as you might imagine). So there's one example; I would ask buyers to READ THE ITEM DESCRIPTION in addition to paying for the item in a timely manner. I would also ask that the buyers wait more than two days for an item to arrive, and to know that UPS and USPS tracking do not work in the same way at all (or at least trust me when I try to politely explain to them why their USPS shipment shows "electronic billing info received" even thought it's been in transit for days). I also expect buyers to respond honestly when a "SNAD" (significantly not as described) complaint is filed with PayPal. For a refund to be issued, PayPal requires that the offending item be returned to the seller. I have had people send old, broken junk or completely unrelated items back with delivery confirmation, and PayPal doesn't care. They issue a refund anyway. Mind-boggling.

eBay can be an absolute nightmare for sellers... trust me. It is absolutely false to say that as long as a buyer pays they have fulfilled their part of the bargain. I want to know, as a seller, if I am dealing with a buyer who has conned folks out of partial refunds or had unrealistic performance expectations for sellers. That's what feedback should be for.

__________________
1992 300D 2.5T
1980 Euro 300D (sadly, sold)
1998 Jetta TDI, 132K "Rudy"
1974 Triumph TR6
1999 Saab 9-5 wagon (wife's)

Let's go with your example. What if you require payment within 5 days and on day 6, the item has still not been paid for. Do you know what PayPal/eBay will let you do at that point? I do: NOTHING!

__________________
1992 300D 2.5T
1980 Euro 300D (sadly, sold)
1998 Jetta TDI, 132K "Rudy"
1974 Triumph TR6
1999 Saab 9-5 wagon (wife's)

If one hasn't been keeping up with the changes, it would be easy to be unaware of the degree to which eBay is pushing much more of a "retail buying experience".

The notion of sellers rating buyers simply doesn't fit in with that way of thinking. Too bad for you if you want to know what other sellers think of a prospective buyer.

Want to pay for an item? Pay through the eBay checkout system.
Want to communicate with a prospective buyer or seller? Do so only through the eBay messaging system.
Want to sell in certain categories? You must offer at least one shipping option that doesn't exceed a predetermined maximum - even if that's less than what it will actually cost to ship.

Never, never forget, though, that eBay is just a venue!

I'm not going to bother with a quote of #35 here, but that is a very good point. I suppose that I am projecting my own behavior as a buyer onto others, who do not deserve the trust. Can you tell that I've never sold anything on Ebay?

Can you get your listing fees refunded or a new listing without new fees? By the tone of your post, I would guess that it is a resounding "NO!"

If all eBayers were like you and I, eBay would be a great place! Yes, there are some real kooks using eBay (to buy AND to sell). As for the unpaid item strike, yes, I can have my fees refunded, but only after a lengthy reporting process and "investigation" by eBay. If, during the unpaid item dispute, the buyer responds AT ALL (even if just to say "screw you, I'm not paying"), they can leave me feedback (!). I can ask that that feedback be removed if and when the dispute ends in my favor (and yes, at that point I can have my fees refunded), but I cannot leave a negative for that buyer to warn others of their behavior, and I have to wait for this "investigation" to end before I can relist. Grrrrrr...

Anyway, suffice it to say that IN GENERAL, eBayers are a pleasant enough lot to deal with, and you can find some really fun and interesting things to buy there. It can also be a major pain, though!

__________________
1992 300D 2.5T
1980 Euro 300D (sadly, sold)
1998 Jetta TDI, 132K "Rudy"
1974 Triumph TR6
1999 Saab 9-5 wagon (wife's)

Well, that's not exactly what I would call a "resounding no," but it is indeed quite a pain. In any brick-and-mortar store, I can walk in, talk to a salesman, tell him that I want something, fail to pay and walk out without my purchase. Why does Ebay need to make this so painful?

The resounding "no" comes when you try to enforce a 5-day payment period (or 10-day, for that matter). An unruly buyer can stretch that out for weeks if they play the system right, and hold up your sale until they either pay or eBay finally finds in your favor. So what I was arguing is that there is no way to enforce a 5 day payment period. If a seller re-lists an item on the 6th day after the bidding closes, the buyer can still submit payment and then lodge a non-performing seller complaint, for which the SELLER then gets spanked. eBay/PayPal rules trump any fine print or guidelines you list in your auction, sadly, and since they hold the money bag (and will be the sole holders of said bag if they make all their payments online in-house only).

__________________
1992 300D 2.5T
1980 Euro 300D (sadly, sold)
1998 Jetta TDI, 132K "Rudy"
1974 Triumph TR6
1999 Saab 9-5 wagon (wife's)

If you don't go through the pain and risk of the "unpaid item dispute", then eBay keeps the final value fee that they charged you when the item "sold". To them, painful is good.

By the way, even if the seller "wins" the unpaid item dispute, the original listing fees are NOT refunded - just the final value fee. The item may be eligible for a normal relisting credit: relist the item, and IF it sells the second time around, then the insertion fee for the second listing will be refunded. Listing "upgrades" beyond the basic insertion fee are not refunded.

Can you get the same variety in any brick-and-mortar store? Would the price be the same? If not, aren't we comparing apples to oranges?

__________________
01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

I believe that it is a fair comparison, as these are merely two venues.

I can't get the same variety in any one brick-and-mortar store, but you can't get the same variety from any one Ebay seller either.

Why should the price be a part of the discussion? I shop where I choose.

Interesting that you bring this up, Aklim, because it seems like eBay is attempting to force its sellers into behaving like B&M stores. I'm sorry, but I sell one-of-a-kind items, often antique, and I am NOT WalMart. I describe every item as best I can, and err on the side of caution. I would rather my buyers be happy than dissatisfied. Nevertheless, there are always the buyers who can't read descriptions, and eBay/PayPal want me to treat them the same way WalMart would someone who bought a pair of jeans and changed their minds. That's unreasonable, in my estimation. As you point out, they are two very different entities.

__________________
1992 300D 2.5T
1980 Euro 300D (sadly, sold)
1998 Jetta TDI, 132K "Rudy"
1974 Triumph TR6
1999 Saab 9-5 wagon (wife's)