Toyota posts a loss! - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Brian Carlton · #16 12-26-2008, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim B.

When the new '92 Bonneville ssei came out, she was assigned to rep it at the auto show in Detroit, and stand on the turntable wih the car. As this new "show car" went around the turntable, a sharp eyed old lady pointed out to her the brand new Bonneville had cloth inserts on 3 of its doors and leather on the forth one.

Some people are destined to offer up largely irrelevant stories from the past and attempt to use them for their current argument.

dynalow · #17 12-26-2008, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Carlton

When Ford and Chevy match Acura, Audi, and Honda in overall quality levels, the level of criticism generated toward the American manufacturers is clearly unfounded and based upon past performance and bias.

The current situation that the U.S. auto companies find themselves is strictly the result of overcapacity. When you lose 30% of your business, it's difficult to cover fixed expenses.

I'm not so sure it's all the result of over-capacity. Something's really wrong when you burn up cash like GM is doing. Accorting to their Sept. 30 SEC filings, they burned a billion dollars a month cash this year on operating activities alone. (Not investing or financing cash flow. Just operating cash) That's 33 million dollars EVERY DAY.
All I can say is:WOW.

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=84530&p=irol-SECText&TEXT=aHR0cDovL2NjYm4uMTBrd2l6YXJkLmNvbS94bWwvZmlsaW5nLnhtbD9yZXBvPXRlbmsmaXBhZ2U9NTk2NzA4OCZkb2M9MSZ udW09Ng%3d%3d

How long will the 14 billion of TARP funds keep the lights on in Lansing?

dynalow · #18 12-26-2008, 10:53 AM

Is this horse dead? This is from GM's 10Q financial statement.

Liquidity Matters

We have had significant losses from 2005 through the nine months ended September 30, 2008, attributable to operations and to restructurings and other charges such as support for Delphi and future cost cutting measures. We have managed our liquidity during this time through a series of cost reduction initiatives, capital markets transactions and sales of assets. However, the global credit market crisis has had a dramatic effect on our industry. In the three months ended September 30, 2008, the turmoil in the mortgage and overall credit markets, continued reductions in U.S. housing values, historically high prices for energy, the high likelihood that the United States and Western Europe have entered into a recession and the slowdown of economic growth in the rest of the world, created a substantially more difficult business environment. Vehicle sales in North America and Western Europe contracted severely and the pace of vehicle sales in the rest of the world slowed. Our liquidity position, as well as our operating performance, were negatively affected by these economic and industry conditions and by other financial business factors, many of which are beyond our control. These conditions have generally worsened during October 2008, with sales of vehicles for the U.S. industry falling to 861,000 units, or a seasonally adjusted rate of 10.9 million units, which was the lowest level for October since 1982. We do not believe it is likely that these adverse economic conditions, and their effect on the automotive industry, will improve significantly in the near term, notwithstanding the unprecedented intervention by the U.S. and other governments in the global banking and financial systems.
...........http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=84530&p=irol-SECText&TEXT=aHR0cDovL2NjYm4uMTBrd2l6YXJkLmNvbS94bWwvZmlsaW5nLnhtbD9yZXBvPXRlbmsmaXBhZ2U9NTk2NzA4OCZhdHRhY2g 9T04%3d

sfloriII · #19 12-26-2008, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim B.

I have been talking to product reps for the company that have told me that the Outback, basically with the same desgin since 1995 will have a totally new design for 2010. And they will be available with the new Boxer Diesel engine too, so the AWD advantage will be even better coupled with the low center of gravity that the boxer engine provides, which makes them less suscetible to body roll, a danger with 4wd vehicles.

Cool. Now I know what my next car will be!!

aklim · #20 12-26-2008, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Carlton

When Ford and Chevy match Acura, Audi, and Honda in overall quality levels, the level of criticism generated toward the American manufacturers is clearly unfounded and based upon past performance and bias.

Even if that happens on Jan 1 2009, it will still take a good many years before that level of criticism wears off. Even longer for the client to take another chance with the Big 3. Even years ago, Shakespeare told us that the evil that men do lives after them. Add that to the fact that their cars will cost more to make than Honda, Acura, etc, etc makes it unlikely that GM will recover.

Jim B. · #21 12-26-2008, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Carlton

Some people are destined to offer up largely irrelevant stories from the past and attempt to use them for their current argument.

And other people defend the indefensible.

rwthomas1 · #22 12-26-2008, 01:06 PM

Toyota makes a good product but not anything I am interested in buying. I drove 300+ miles yesterday in an '05 Camry. Its a quiet comfortable car that moves 4 people around well. Thats it. Its inspired in no other way. Like driving a fridge. The ultimate disposable automobile. No soul. Toyota doesn't make a truck I would buy either. Longbed V8 2wd? The lots are crammed with "crew max" 4 dr trucks with a shortbed. Worthless to me, I actually USE the bed. I'm a work truck buyer and they don't offer me what I want. I can price out a "work" type truck but I can't find them, and the price is still higher than domestic. No thanks. How about a diesel 3/4 or 1 ton truck? Can't get that either. RT

ImBroke · #23 12-26-2008, 04:37 PM

I use my truck too, that's why the F350, complete with 4 doors and an 8 foot bed. Turns like a land barge, but will do anything I ask of it. My Honda hasn't been all that reliable, so I don't know why people are deep throating Honda all the time. Not to mention the sheet metal is so thin, you push a little, and there's another dent. There is another acronym that stands in the way of American manufacturers and fuel economy, and that is EPA.

Toyota may have posted a 1.7 billion loss this quarter, but the 25 billion profit for both of the last two quarters should lessen the blow somewhat.

aklim · #24 12-26-2008, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImBroke

I use my truck too, that's why the F350, complete with 4 doors and an 8 foot bed. Turns like a land barge, but will do anything I ask of it. My Honda hasn't been all that reliable, so I don't know why people are deep throating Honda all the time. Not to mention the sheet metal is so thin, you push a little, and there's another dent. There is another acronym that stands in the way of American manufacturers and fuel economy, and that is EPA.

Toyota may have posted a 1.7 billion loss this quarter, but the 25 billion profit for both of the last two quarters should lessen the blow somewhat.

For the heavy trucks, they are not in the field YET. For the cars, the impression is that they are better.

catmandoo62 · #25 12-26-2008, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rwthomas1

How about a diesel 3/4 or 1 ton truck? Can't get that either. RT

i want a 1/2 ton diesel pickup.

hill · #26 12-26-2008, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rwthomas1

Toyota makes a good product but not anything I am interested in buying. I drove 300+ miles yesterday in an '05 Camry. Its a quiet comfortable car that moves 4 people around well. Thats it. Its inspired in no other way. Like driving a fridge. The ultimate disposable automobile. No soul. Toyota doesn't make a truck I would buy either. Longbed V8 2wd? The lots are crammed with "crew max" 4 dr trucks with a shortbed. Worthless to me, I actually USE the bed. I'm a work truck buyer and they don't offer me what I want. I can price out a "work" type truck but I can't find them, and the price is still higher than domestic. No thanks. How about a diesel 3/4 or 1 ton truck? Can't get that either. RT

Have you tried to talk to fleet sales managers? I bought a no nonsence truck for my old business that was piggy backed with a large custom order for a utility company.

tankdriver · #27 12-26-2008, 05:51 PM

My brother's inlaws have an '04 Dodge Durango. They've had to replace pretty much everything electrical (engine related), including 3 ECUs.
When I lived in DC, I worked for a granite co. that bought new Chevy cargo vans when I started doing measurements. Not a week into it, it had electrical problems.

I got into cars in my late 20's. Before that, I didn't give a rat's behind about my car as long as it got me from pt. A to pt. B. I had an 88 Accord. At 175K, my transmission died (in part because I kept driving it when it could've been saved). Never did the timing belt, water pump, or anything else but the wear items. My dad's 78 Civic, the Accord I inherited, my brother's Integra, and my Prelude have all been solid cars. My brother's '94 Del Sol VTEC had the ignition system crash on him (supposedly)a couple weeks ago and has a small leak somewhere in the clutch cylinder.

Just anecdotes, obviously not proof one is better than the other. My experience and the experience of people I know with domestics has soured my opinion of them. The offerings here have soured my opinion of them. The complete and utter lack of innovative competitive drive has soured my opinion of them. I like companies that take the lead, always looking to be better. I don't like the uninspired styling of most of the cars. I don't like the lack of performance in almost all the cars they sell here. Those Opel GTs they brought over here were neutered. Between them and the S2000, I like the looks of the Solstice exterior by a mile. But they are miles behind in absolutely every other aspect contrasted with the S2K.

Jim B. · #28 12-26-2008, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hill

Have you tried to talk to fleet sales managers? I bought a no nonsence truck for my old business that was piggy backed with a large custom order for a utility company.

That's really excellent advice. One of my closest friends used to be a Fleet Sales Manager for a Ford dealer near Berkeley, California.

hill · #29 12-26-2008, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim B.

That's really excellent advice. One of my closest friends used to be a Fleet Sales Manager for a Ford dealer near Berkeley, California.

Regular car salesman are not to happy when you specify two doors, long bed, six cyl, vinyl and the only thing with power are breaks and steering. Just to be a nice guy I didn't delete the radio.

diametricalbenz · #30 12-26-2008, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImBroke

I use my truck too, that's why the F350, complete with 4 doors and an 8 foot bed. Turns like a land barge, but will do anything I ask of it. My Honda hasn't been all that reliable, so I don't know why people are deep throating Honda all the time. Not to mention the sheet metal is so thin, you push a little, and there's another dent. There is another acronym that stands in the way of American manufacturers and fuel economy, and that is EPA.

Conversely I drive a 6000lb 2500 Dodge Ram extended cab with an 8 foot bed daily and it stranded me for a bad fuel gauge on Monday no less, the paint peels off if you attach tape to it, the power door locks don't work, the seatbacks don't lock, the cruise control buttons crack, and it requires a 5 point turn to do anything.

The Honda..... 6 years of perfect reliability.