... and now it happened. - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

mgburg · #31 12-28-2008, 11:54 PM

Sometimes some folks can't see the trees 'cause they're too far into the forest...

But then, again, I could be wrong...

LaRondo · #32 12-29-2008, 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LUVMBDiesels

Credibility in negotiating with these people. If Israel appears weak, the Palestinians will continue their attacks and not come to the table again.

BTW, what do YOU want out of this? Do you want Israel to give back all the and they 'STOLE' from the Palestinians? Even the original 1948 mandate? How about all the Jews meekly go to slaughterhouses and have themselves killed off. I bet that would end all the strife in the ME now wouldn't it...

It seems as if you keep saying that everybody who sides with the Israelis defending themselves against these attacks is being 'programmed' Anybody who sides with Hamas is seeing the truth?

What are you driving at here?

What am I driving here? Well, it may be easy to tell, but it might be hard for you to understand.
If you're really interested, it should worth it for you to take another shot or 2.

I don't see credibility here. You must be talking about something else.
I am sorry, but I fail to see strength in Israel's actions.

However, maybe you like to suggest for me to STFUP and keep the dirt under the carpet, where it belongs. Maybe so.

Programmed? That was a reponse to Burgie, but since you mention it that way, it very well seems to be so. For the larger part of the North American continent, anyways.

LaRondo · #33 12-29-2008, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cudaspaz

What would "you" do if you were Israel Larondo?

It's not going to happen. Not 100 years before today, nor 100 years after today. Unless I am overruled. I that case you'd have to ask me again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cudaspaz

They want to take over the world so which side are you on?

I am definitely on my side, I am sure about that.

Ps. I skipped the part between, did I miss anything?

LaRondo · #34 12-29-2008, 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgburg

What's this H-SCS you're talking about?

As I stated earlier, I don't need the left-, right-, mid- or behind-the-back thinkers to speak for me...

I've read and understand what's being said, printed and shown out there...

Israel is staying...

Hamas is dragging everyone/everything to a suicidal end...

The Arab world is waiting to see which flavor of cockroach is going to move in and sacrifice itself to keep up the fight against the Israelis...

Russia and China will continue to arm the cockroaches so long as the oil still flows their direction to help offset the costs of the arms themselves...

What's so hard to understand?

It's a business...but piss off the businessmen themselves, then watch the gloves come off...

As always I find you very inspiring. Here it is:

Cockroaches

Businessmen

Gloves

Remember?

LaRondo · #35 12-29-2008, 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tankdriver

What do you think Texans would do if Europe gave Texas to Muslims?

Tough Kraut. That's all I can think of.

Botnst · #36 12-29-2008, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaRondo

...
Programmed? That was a reponse to Burgie, but since you mention it that way, it very well seems to be so. For the larger part of the North American continent, anyways.

Everybody who disagrees with you is programmed.

LUVMBDiesels · #37 12-29-2008, 09:49 AM

http://www.debbieschlussel.com/archives/004594print.html

Debbie Schlussel: Don't Get Too Excited About the Phony Baloney, Temporary Israeli "War" vs. HAMAS

By Debbie Schlussel
I've been getting a number of e-mails from readers cheering on the current Israeli strikes on HAMAS and Gaza in response to HAMAS' katusha rocket attacks on Israel.
And to those readers, I say, Don't Get Too Excited. You're buying into the latest campaign tactic of losing candidate for Prime Minister, Tzipi Livni--a complete doompa a/k/a Olmert in a skirt and makeup. Anyone who thinks this latest "salvo" against HAMAS is of any significance whatsoever, really doesn't know much about Israel and hasn't been paying attention to goings on there for the last couple of decades, especially the last several years.
Latest Israeli Attack on HAMASis Costly Campaign Ad in Tzipi Livni Power-GrabThere have been many of these occasion, temporary Israeli attacks on HAMAS or temporary blockades of funds or supplies to Gaza. And they are a waste of time because Israel doesn't mean business. Eventually, Israel backs down and stops and allows HAMAS to get "refueled" with supplies, money, etc. And yet the HAMAS attacks never end.
You must ask yourself why Israel suddenly chose to strike back now after years of HAMAS sending these rockets to kill the poor, working-class Israelis of Sderot--most of them descendants of Jews expelled from their homes and property in Arab Muslim countries. Why did it not matter that HAMAS sent rockets every day to kill Jews during the faux-truce and before then? Why does it suddenly matter now? What was different about now versus two months ago or two months from now?
Well, I'll tell you what's different: The only hawk running for Israeli Prime Minister, Binyamin Netanyahu (we'll see how hawkish he ends up being once he's elected--since he wasn't nearly as hawkish in office as out of it), is whipping Livni in the polls, and the elections are just two months away. This is Livni's and Olmert's attempt--after several years of capitulation to Islamic terrorists, after practicing Judenrein in their own country and yanking Jews from their homes and businesses in Gaza and cities like Amona in the so-called West Bank--to try to look tough to Israelis with short attention spans. That's all it is.
This "war"--which is really no war at all, since there is no intent to win and no inclination to continue this with any sort of relentlessness to defeat HAMAS and its entire support network in Gaza (almost all of the Gaza population)--is show business meant for an Israeli electorate. It is no different than Bill Clinton bombing a baby formula factory the day Monica testified. It's a waste of munitions and a risk of Israeli soldiers lives to win an election.
If Israel really meant business, it would have invaded and attacked Gaza long ago. Or rather, it would never have pulled out of there in the first place. It would have expelled the Gazans to Arab countries, the way the residents of Sderot's parents--who are once again under attack by Muslims--were kicked out by those countries. All of these things would have saved Israeli lives. But that's not what this is about.
If Israel consistently attacked HAMAS, it would be great. But that's not what the post-modern (and post-Israel) Israelis do. In a week or two, they'll be letting through "supplies" and making a new fake "truce"--either official or de facto--and releasing more Palestinian terrorists to show "good will." Taht's what they always do. It will make this--as it does all of their brief, temporary attacks on HAMAS--meaningless.
You do not kill cancer by occasionally going through chemo or radiation when you want to look good at a Bar Mitzvah, after the metastasis is already happening. You kill cancer through regular treatment of the attacking cells, not by self-amputating your arm and leaving the cancer cells to fester on the remaining stump. That is what this ephemeral "war" on Gaza/HAMAS is. Nothing more.
And nothing to cheer about. It may make you feel good that, for example, HAMAS has occasional, perfect aim, killing its own people, which it views as expendable collateral damage. But in the long run, they are winning.
The Muslims not only have the will to survive, but to attack relentlessly their Jewish (and Christian) enemies. Israelis only have the will to get re-elected and take a siesta on Dizengoff Street and the discos of Tel Aviv.
No "Mazel Tov" from me on this expensive, dangerous, temporary campaign commercial for the Israeli leftists and their ambitions for the Prime Minister's office.
***
And don't forget that this is all about propping up the so-called "more moderate" terrorist leader--Holocaust-denier and Munich-massacre-paymaster, Mahmoud Abbas, who really doesn't enjoy the popular Palestinian support HAMAS has. Israel continuing to risk Israeli lives to prop up this scumbag, just 'cuz he's the favored scumbag, but no less scummy than HAMAS.
Yes, let's hear it for those "partners for peace." And remember that, regardless of this temporary "attack" on HAMAS, America will pressure Israel into establishing a Palestinian state--right now there are two de facto such states on either side of Israel. And HAMAS will eventually take over that state.
Ah, statehood for the "deprived" Palestinians who strongly support HAMAS and live in Gaza and Ramallah mansions (which in Ramallah, are subsidized and "bailed out" by your taxes).

Posted by Debbie on December 28, 2008 03:11 PM to Debbie Schlussel

Interesting to say the least...

Jim B. · #38 12-29-2008, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Bell

Imagine that..after days of enduring endlesss rocket and mortar attacks the Israelis struck back. go figure.

""Militants often operate against Israel from civilian areas" said the article.

aklim · #39 12-29-2008, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaRondo

Let's say you own a nice junk of land, acreage, all you see is horizon. Some day people settle along the lines of what is your land, your property. For one reason or another, it seems that you can't get along with your 'new' neighbors. Trouble.

Next you realize, that those 'new' neighbors are somehow settling beyond the lines of what is theirs, on your acreage.

Years of enduring dispute. The new neighbors now claiming to be entitled to what was once your undisputed property, come moving closer to your home, seizing parcel after parcel, section after section of your land.

Eventually, those nice peace loving neighbors, even construct a wall around you and the small remainder of what was once your undisputed land.
You can't see the horizon anymore, all you know is, you are besieged, nothing comes through to you and you can't get out anymore to what was once your unrestrained property.

Also, you know, there is nothing you can debate with those "new neighbors". Regardless, just Nothing.

How would you feel? Would you fire a rocket, if you had one, besides having nothing else to loose?

Facinating story. It does make it seem so one sided. Take the issue of the wall for instance, what provoked the construction of the wall? Do you ever talk about that issue?

Lets talk of debate. They were told that without 14 days of ceasefire, there would be nothing to discuss. They couldn't even hold off that long.

For someone who has nothing to lose, they seem to be losing more each day.

aklim · #40 12-29-2008, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaRondo

What kind of credibility exactly is it, you are talking about?

Ancient Chinese saying: If man slaps you on right cheek and you turn your left to him, soon you have 2 sore cheeks.

aklim · #41 12-29-2008, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tankdriver

What do you think Texans would do if Europe gave Texas to Muslims?

Probably nothing. The Mexicans would probably fight it though.

LaRondo · #42 12-29-2008, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

Everybody who disagrees with you is programmed.

That's your program, Mr B. It's not about disagreement here.
I have been keeping it at best in a fashion to avoid a clash of personalities and opinions.

I am trying to stay as neutral as I can within my own view, merely observing.

Now, what I see, is extremely disappointing.

We all know, criticism of Israel throughout the US is condemnable and undesireable.

A widespread ideological monotheism has grown to the point were the remainder of the population is in a near paralysed state of apathy, when is comes to the ongoing issue of the Israel/Palastine.

It's not about justifications. Those can be made up and any given time, according to which ever side you tend to lean on.

More so the question remains, if you or any of the participants here, are able to go beyond reasoning and seasoning and face the real issue.I am still waiting for this to see.

Now, Kamerad B., your assessment is flat, simplified and stereotypical.

It's not disagreement that defines programming, it's the roots and origins of reasoning and the framework of justifications, that typifies an intellectual program.

Still, there is hope that we might actually get somewhere.

Do you really think, I am so empty-brained, to put up this issue, without knowing the likeliness of predictable reactions

LaRondo · #43 12-29-2008, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LUVMBDiesels

Interesting to say the least...

Now, that's something I can agree with. Still lightfooted, but at least it sets a pace in the right direction, considering a journalist standpoint.

aklim · #44 12-29-2008, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaRondo

More so the question remains, if you or any of the participants here, are able to go beyond reasoning and seasoning and face the real issue.I am still waiting for this to see.

What do YOU see is the real issue? Besides 2 kids fighting in the sandbox, that is.

tankdriver · #45 12-29-2008, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

Probably nothing. The Mexicans would probably fight it though.

I'd bet there would be a slew of empty gunracks.

People often lose sight of the forest for the leaves when talking about Israel.
Most here seem to think Israel is justified in killing over 200 Palestinians in retaliation for the killing of one Israeli. If Israel is justified in retaliation, how then are not the Palestinians justified in retaliating for their deaths?

In order to find justification for retaliation, then one must find the first death resulting in conflict between a jew and palestinian. Good luck with that. If you can't find it, then retaliatory right is determined by which side you happen to be on, not by justice. That makes the Palestinians no worse than the Israelis.

What is the goal of Israel's retaliation? It was an insufficient action for genocide. Their enemy has demonstrated that they will not be cowed. If the goal is punitive, then it is difficult to hold onto just-ness when not only they did not target the specific offenders, but also killed 230some more people than the offenders did.
One thing is definitely not the goal: to stop terror attacks.

In any case, all of that misses the point. Israel was created, and later seized more, territory from the Palestinians. The Palestinians lost. The Israelis oppress them. Many Palestinians continue to fight. Israelis fight back. Palestinians can't win because they are outmatched, so some of them kill civilians. They know it's wrong, so they commit suicide at the same time to they don't have to live with themselves. Israelis kill the ones fighting, sometimes the ones not fighting, and continue to oppress and make their lives hell on earth, prompting them to seek a better life in heaven. That desire is channeled and manipulated by power mongers.