Buchanan talks sense on Afghanistan - Page 4 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

DieselAddict · #46 02-21-2009, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

They wanted to surrender Iraq because as we all, "know" the religious differences make Iraq ungovernable except by a ruthless murderer -- implied by some (anybody wish to step up with their raised hand??) that Iraq was better off under Hussein. They "knew" Iraq was "destined" to fragment in violence.

What actually has happened?

Anybody?

Like tank says, Iraq's success remains to be seen. They're still under our occupation and many are paid by us to keep the peace in their neighborhoods. And they've only had provincial elections so far that were peaceful. The true test will come after the US disengages from there and they have full parliamentary elections. If they can pull it off and respect the results without major violence to follow, I'll declare Iraq a success for the time being. Until then, we don't know jack. But even if Iraq becomes a stable secular democracy (wishful but possible) I don't think I'll ever feel it was worth the sacrifice.

Quote:

Now the same crowd is eager to find a reason to surrender to the Taliban. Reason? 19th Century British army failed to subdue the local tribes and the USSR failed to subdue the local tribes. With those two witless, mindless, shallow points, who could possibly argue?

B

I too don't know anyone who wants to surrender to the Taliban. In fact as far as I'm concerned I even support the current surge there. I just hope it's done intelligently.

cmac2012 · #47 02-25-2009, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

The Iraqi army evaporated under the combined arms assault. Within a couple of months there was no Iraqi military or Iraqi government. The coalition military performed admirably. No question.

What came next was poorly planned and poorly executed. Until last year when YOU and the rest of the "Let's surrender" crowd were pi$$ing all over yourselves.

My how times do change.

Now the same surrender crowd is looking at Afghanistan for vindication of their cowardice. Hope springs eternal.

Speaking of not reading for comprehension, you have only the barest clue on my thinking. The Iraqi army was defeated? This was a surprise? Infinitely more difficult is moving the populace to welcome our input in their lives. Some of that takes place now here and there but most all of that appears to be born of pragmatism, with little real loyalty in the mix.

It could be that we have merely armed to the teeth all sides for the eventual civil war. These people, Bush and team, were zealots from the git go, with their gaze fixed on their misconceptions of what would result from their bold action.

IMO, the time to make a bold move in Afghanistan was in '02 sometime. I see little chance for vindication for anyone, even though I more or less supported the original invasion. I've since sobered up and lean to the words of the last Soviet general there, the one who oversaw the withdrawal. He recently said something like:

"The US can decrease forces or they can increase forces. The result will be the same: loss."

Afghanistan: where empires go to die, or, the great humbling that has been coming our way for some time.

Don't blame me.

Botnst · #48 02-25-2009, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DieselAddict

... The true test will come after the US disengages from there and they have full parliamentary elections.....

That's the test of any democracy. I am glad you acknowledge the fact that they are facing the same test as every other popularly elected government. I wish them well in shaping their own destiny.

cmac2012 · #49 02-25-2009, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

We'll just ahve to disagree on that one. I like "Give us that mofo or we'll destroy your sorry misogynistic asses" as a negotiating position. They went for Door #2. Oopsie.

Yeah, I'm just sure that apprehending OBL would see a flowering of peace, industrial progress, and an end to tribal conflict and perpetual primitivism in the middle east.

Whether we put him on trial for months, or summarily execute him, nothing but glorious success will result from putting his sorry ass on ice.

Botnst · #50 02-25-2009, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012

Speaking of not reading for comprehension, you have only the barest clue on my thinking....

On this you are absolutely right, no question. You are the self-declared swami on that ability which I readily acknowledge.

cmac2012 · #51 02-25-2009, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

On this you are absolutely right, no question. You are the self-declared swami on that ability which I readily acknowledge.

Kind sir, you do flatter me greatly, with your clear need to resort to evasiveness in the face of my simply undeniable brilliance.

You and this perception that US military might is glorious beyond all comprehension are both on the decline.

Botnst · #52 02-25-2009, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012

Kind sir, you do flatter me greatly, with your clear need to resort to evasiveness in the face of my simply undeniable brilliance.

You and this perception that US military might is glorious beyond all comprehension are both on the decline.

No evasion, you are the Man!

cmac2012 · #53 02-25-2009, 10:35 PM

Well, you are at least not completely imperceptive.