Wasn't it a combined effort from Congress?

WGAS?

Why would it create more enemies?

Dems got involved too. As to what happened, they are politicians. They lick their finger and hold it up to see the direction of the wind.

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Hope for both them and us and the international community and if we leave we will leave another safe haven for extemists to prosper those who hate the U.S.A. That is what I was talking about leaving and not setting up schools and roads and a central government will just leave a power vacuum that the Taliban will be all to happy to fill.

I don't think the international community would be too upset if Afghanistan was left to fend for itself. What is the fascination with Afghanistan anyway? Why did the British try to conquer the region in the 19th century? It's like an ongoing battle over Montana or something...
The Taliban was in control before. Sure, it was by no means a humane government, if you want to call it that, but they didn't bother anyone internationally. The only reason we went in there was because they were supposedly harboring Bin Laden, and wouldn't turn him over to us.
But, why on earth would we listen to them? We have had him in our sights multiple times, but let him go. Do you think we listen to Pakistan when we go bomb their tribal regions weekly?
When Gorbachev decided to pull out of there, he asked the US for help to establish ANY sort of democratic government, so it would make the people of Russia feel somewhat productive after losing 10,000+ troops for nothing. The US said no; USSR warned against letting the Taliban take over; we let it happen. There are other countries in the region who dislike the Taliban and it actually affects them..therefore, they can deal with it.
Lastly, if we can't conquer mountainous tribal regions, what makes you think the Taliban can? Most of those people can stand up for themselves, they just choose not to because they probably don't have much problem with it. It's us that has the problem.

I know the US has the desire to keep any large scale Islamic state forming, but until they actually do and pose a threat to us, why do we have to be involved? We can easily defend ourselves. Instead, we are out trying to stop things from happening that might not even happen, although the more we try, the more it seems likely that people will turn against us.

I agree that more education would be helpful, but doing so with military force certainly isn't a good way to gain support.

Remember, there is a reason why "they" hate the USA. Maybe if we took that reason away, we wouldn't have any problems.

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Read what Buchanan is saying. The heart of our problem is the policies toward Russia and Iran that have been followed by the Bush administration for the last eight years. At a time when we had a tremendous opportunity for a strategic alliance with the Russians, Bush instead did everything he could to piss them off, most greviously the insane pursuit of putting missles into Poland and granting membership in NATO to countries that are right on Russia's front door step, the equivalent of Russia putting it's Atlantic Fleet and Spetznatz bases in Mexico, all at a time when there is no evidence that Russia is any kind of military threat to either us or Europe. Iran was subjected to the "we don't negotiate with terrorists" malarkey.

Buchanan is the first conservative I've read who is admitting that the American Left has been right: what we need is a re-approachment and probably a down-right formal alliance with the Russians, recognize that they have their sphere of influence in Central Europe and South Asia that is equivalent to our own in Central and South America, and that we find some sort of accomodation with Iran, who would be far more motivated to make a deal if they have both the Americans and Russians on the same side against them. This was not possible until Obama, of course, since if we did that, peace might break out, so the Bush regime was totally against the idea as it might cause a profit squeeze among the military-industrial complex they actually represented. Now that he is gone, it is time to make the deal. With a Russian partnership and an Iranian detente, the problem of Afghanistan and Pakistan becomes manageable. Russia does not want a nuclear-armed Taliban any more than we do. Iran doesn't want Sunni Al Queda leading the Muslim world. It is time for our common interests, instead of the constant "us or them" mentality of the Bu$hites, to come to the forefront so we can actually solve these problems.

More hope! More audacity!

I don't think the international community would be too upset if Afghanistan was left to fend for itself. I think they would be upset or they should be a state like Afghanistan is a perfect place to show that Islam and peace and the modern world can coexist.


What is the fascination with Afghanistan anyway? used to be useful trade route and more land to have

When Gorbachev decided to pull out of there, he asked the US for help to establish ANY sort of democratic government, so it would make the people of Russia feel somewhat productive after losing 10,000+ troops for nothing. The US said no; USSR warned against letting the Taliban take over; we let it happen. Can't argue with history I think it as a bad call but nothing can be done about it now. There are other countries in the region who dislike the Taliban and it actually affects them..therefore, they can deal with it.
A fend forthemselves type mentality is dangerous then you can get a situation like a Darfur type massacre and no one cares or can do anything
Lastly, if we can't conquer mountainous tribal regions, what makes you think the Taliban can? They have more knowledge and are Islamic they can.
I know the US has the desire to keep any large scale Islamic state forming, but until they actually do and pose a threat to us, why do we have to be involved? If this irrational hatred of the west continues thw western world in general is going to be in a deep deep pile of crap. We can easily defend ourselves. Can we? against women and children wired to be bombs? Instead, we are out trying to stop things from happening that might not even happen, although the more we try, the more it seems likely that people will turn against us. Or maybe we aren't doing it the right way.

I agree that more education would be helpful, but doing so with military force certainly isn't a good way to gain support. I never said more education with military support just help in general.

.

President Obama is going to fix it.

"President Obama is going to fix it." Couldn't do any worse than his predecessor

Sure he could. He could ramp up the US military presence on the ground to a level substantially greater than at present, but still insufficient to defeat the Taliban. This will result in increased US casualties, and increase in domestic US dissent and calls for withdrawl until eventually we pull out after having suffered far higher casuaties than at present without having accomplished anything.

- Peter.

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At Tora Bora all we needed to do is NOT rely on the local militia to do the OBL hunt for us. And given the terrain a nuke may not have guaranteed anything. It would be more like trying to kill a fly with a sledge hammer. Given your desire to use nukes at just about any opportunity, I'm sure glad you're not the president. Few more who hate us is no big deal? Even when it's not exactly a few more but exponentially more? And Japan is hardly a useful analogy here.

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Sounds reasonable to me.

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It would have sent a signal that this would be a "No Holds Barred" event. Instead, they see more of the same stuff they saw in Somalia. They saw that when push came to shove, we weren't willing to go all the way, whatever it took.

How so? Radioactivity doesn't go away in 2 mins after the dust settles. It can get you even if you are in a cave. You do have to breath.

We are not regarded well in the muslim world. A few more or less won't make the difference.

Why?

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There are over a billion muslims in the world. The vast majority don't hate us. You really want to change that?

Vastly different enemy and circumstances. If you could take out OBL with a nuke with minimal collateral damage, I might agree that it's OK, even if a little wasteful, but most likely it wouldn't turn out that way, assuming you actually knew where he was to begin with.

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I agree that the vast majority are OPENLY neutral. However, if push came to shove, they'd back the other side. We can't even trust our own US Servicemen so do you think these people are really neutral?

We knew he was in Tora Bora and we could have sent a message. Of course it is moot now but back then, we might have sent a strong message that we'd do whatever it took. Instead, we sent them the message that we'd watch our step.

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Ooooooo, you set a high bar there, how audacious!