X2

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On some nights I still believe that a car with the fuel gauge on empty can run about fifty more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. - HST

1983 300SD - 305000
1984 Toyota Landcruiser - 190000
1994 GMC Jimmy - 203000

https://media.giphy.com/media/X3nnss8PAj5aU/giphy.gif

I'll leave that for the experts.

Makes me glad he's our president -

in a visit to the C.I.A. this week, the president did not directly question that. Instead, he said, any disadvantage imposed by banning those tactics was worth it.“I’m sure that sometimes it seems as if that means we’re operating with one hand tied behind our back or that those who would argue for a higher standard are naïve,” he said. “I understand that. You know, I watch the cable shows once in a while.”
But he added: “What makes the United States special, and what makes you special, is precisely the fact that we are willing to uphold our values and our ideals even when it’s hard, not just when it’s easy.”

And again from Admiral Blair -
“The bottom line is these techniques have hurt our image around the world, the damage they have done to our interests far outweighed whatever benefit they gave us and they are not essential to our national security."

Finally some open, honest and intelligent words coming from capitol hill, about time

__________________
On some nights I still believe that a car with the fuel gauge on empty can run about fifty more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. - HST

1983 300SD - 305000
1984 Toyota Landcruiser - 190000
1994 GMC Jimmy - 203000

https://media.giphy.com/media/X3nnss8PAj5aU/giphy.gif

That was the point of the post you quoted. Follow the crumbs back.
If you quoted a post, but not in response to its meaning, my bad.

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1984 300TD

As I said, I will leave that for the experts. For example:Rest of the article here: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/04/24/AR2009042403171.html?hpid=topnews

Does that article say that NO useful information is produced?

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01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

Of course not. Anybody who describes this sort of issue in such black-and-white terms would not be credible.

It says the information is unreliable.

"In essence, physical and/or psychological duress are viewed as an alternative to the more time-consuming conventional interrogation process. The error inherent in this line of thinking is the assumption that, through torture, the interrogator can extract reliable and accurate information. History and a consideration of human behavior would appear to refute this assumption."

__________________
On some nights I still believe that a car with the fuel gauge on empty can run about fifty more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. - HST

1983 300SD - 305000
1984 Toyota Landcruiser - 190000
1994 GMC Jimmy - 203000

https://media.giphy.com/media/X3nnss8PAj5aU/giphy.gif

As I said before, if you have infinite time on your said, WGAS? OTOH, I'd rather have some information that is good and some that is bad opposed to NO information. Torture speeds up the rate of information reception. The trade off is that it isn't as accurate. Unless, that is, you have a way of getting information that is BOTH accurate and reliable?

If we had to torture 20 people and got enough information to save 1 US soldier, I'd call that a bargain.

__________________
01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

That's a value judgment you are entitled to make for yourself. What's missing is any evidence that torturing 20 people or 200 people would save any US soldiers.

And that information, sir, will remain classified for many more years. There are still many bits of information that was gathered during the Vietnam War that sill remains classified.

But, rest assured that many American lives have been saved by that information

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1987 560SL
85,000 miles

You know that information obtained through torture saved American lives? You have seen evidence of this?

Have you seen evidence contrary to it?

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1987 560SL
85,000 miles

We'll take that as a "No I don't have any evidence"

__________________
On some nights I still believe that a car with the fuel gauge on empty can run about fifty more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. - HST

1983 300SD - 305000
1984 Toyota Landcruiser - 190000
1994 GMC Jimmy - 203000

https://media.giphy.com/media/X3nnss8PAj5aU/giphy.gif

I'm not in the interrogation business, so I have to rely on the opinion I hear and read from experts. The experts who say that torture is not an effective method make more sense to me than do the experts on Dick Cheney's side of the issue. They also have the law on their side. I tend to think that their methods are the ones most likely to keep us safe.

More to the point, though, you were the one who said:What is the source of your certainty?