Interesting - Page 8 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

aklim · #**106** 01-18-2010, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012

My Aklimical buddy above gave me grief on using cheap labor while he builds his business on cheap foreign labor.

How do you figure? I am sending one of my product lines in a 40ft container to Nam for packaging and then sale there. None of it is involving the hiring of anyone illegal. I don't give you grief for riding on the illegal's back with sharp claws. If you do that, more power to you. That is what they are there for. To be used and abused. My only concern is that they are here illegally and sucking up resources and taxing the infrastructure and not to mention they are here ILLEGALLY. Beyond that, I could care less. Kinda like if someone breaks into your house and you catch them, tie them up and do a "deliverance" on them. Even if I saw the whole thing, I would probably end up taking the 5th or going to a bar and getting drunk and say my memory is fuzzy on that part.

10fords · #**107** 01-19-2010, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012

We Americans have been getting rich for years on the proceeds of cheap foreign labor difference is that labor was staying in country. My Aklimical buddy above gave me grief on using cheap labor while he builds his business on cheap foreign labor. US businesses have been exploiting Latin America for years. Guatemala has been badly used and abused by US multinationals with gubmint connections. And the economic imbalance acts to right itself to some degree.

The guys I employ are under the impression that they're making good money. It's not like I'm paying them $5 an hour. Their work is not as low grade as you describe. And I don't worry about teaching them stuff. Cast your bread on the water and all that. I'm learning Spanish by using them so we're even.

I have not been getting rich on cheap foreign labor. You only have to answer to yourself in the end, so if you can justify in your mind that it's OK to break the law and exploit people then so be it.

#**108** 01-19-2010, 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

Coming from the construction business, I know exactly why they use Mexicans...they WORK. They don't work that cheap but they will work a 10-12 hour day and not complain.

My experience is similar, I recently had my house painted by a local contractor and was amazed at how his crew worked their butts off. These guys were legal and being paid a reasonable wage. I do think there is a difference in "work ethic" between some recent immigrants and many homegrown americans.

10fords · #**109** 01-19-2010, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig

My experience is similar, I recently had my house painted by a local contractor and was amazed at how his crew worked their butts off. These guys were legal and being paid a reasonable wage. I do think there is a difference in "work ethic" between some recent immigrants and many homegrown americans.

Therein lies the difference- They are LEGAL!!! I have no problem at all with legal immigrants. If they are willing to work harder on a level playing field they absolutely deserve to get the job. If I am lazy and lose a job to someone who is obeying all the laws then it serves me right.

#**110** 01-19-2010, 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10fords

Therein lies the difference- They are LEGAL!!! I have no problem at all with legal immigrants. If they are willing to work harder on a level playing field they absolutely deserve to get the job. If I am lazy and lose a job to someone who is obeying all the laws then it serves me right.

I wouldn't have had a problem if they were illegal either, but these guys happened to be legal. The legal/illegal distinction does not interest me, but I do want to see them given a fair wage.

aklim · #**111** 01-19-2010, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig

I wouldn't have had a problem if they were illegal either, but these guys happened to be legal. The legal/illegal distinction does not interest me, but I do want to see them given a fair wage.

How did the guys CMAC "hired" happen to be legal?

Think about it this way. If you are selling a car, you can ask for something within the area of Blue Book value. OTOH, if you are selling a STOLEN car, well, why should fair market value apply to you? Hot, aka stolen products go for way less than market value. You know that.

elchivito · #**112** 01-19-2010, 03:12 PM

I'm an Arizonan, latino too. Sheriff Joe is a publicity seeking blowhard. His county has 90 unsolved murders and he spends most of his time chasing busboys and motel maids. It makes me a little sick, particularly when you read the stories of the latino citizens who have been profiled by his deputies. And yes, he's still in deep ***** with the DOJ.

aklim · #**113** 01-19-2010, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elchivito

His county has 90 unsolved murders and he spends most of his time chasing busboys and motel maids.

It makes me a little sick, particularly when you read the stories of the latino citizens who have been profiled by his deputies. And yes, he's still in deep ***** with the DOJ.

Do those 90 murders all come under him or just happened to be in his county but under a different jurisdiction?

If my group has a bad rep, I am thinking that it might be up to my group to change that rep and not rely on someone else to change that rep for me. Maybe your group should not be so supportive of the illegals by say not having that "one day without illegals" march for instance?

cmac2012 · #**114** 01-19-2010, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10fords

I have not been getting rich on cheap foreign labor. You only have to answer to yourself in the end, so if you can justify in your mind that it's OK to break the law and exploit people then so be it.

Not that you've been aware of. A good bit of our prosperity comes from our ingenuity and hard work. And, unfortunately, an indeterminate amount has come from various beneficial (to us) arrangements around the world that were entered into with varying degrees of honesty and/or justice involved.

Not by accident have we been paying half or less for petrol than Europe and Japan for most of the last 50 or 60 years. Our adventure in Iran, '53 to '79 was not well founded. The conservative wing in America strikes me as being unaware of most of our record in this regard in part, I'm sure, because of this business of always going hyper speed on defensive denial with the "so, it's all our fault, is it?!" or "they always want to blame America first."

Most of the world's poverty is none of our doing but any exploitation by us of poorer nations while our over the top abundance is on full display to the world in our media is not especially prudent.

And now our wealth has led to a gradual softening of the American workforce, IMHO, such that Latinos find that hard working people can get paid well (by their standards) in our land. Nature abhors a vacuum. I am not the cause of this vacuum. I'm just being sucked on by it.

aklim · #**115** 01-19-2010, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012

Not by accident have we been paying half or less for petrol than Europe and Japan for most of the last 50 or 60 years. Our adventure in Iran, '53 to '79 was not well founded.

The conservative wing in America strikes me as being unaware of most of our record in this regard in part, I'm sure, because of this business of always going hyper speed on defensive denial with the "so, it's all our fault, is it?!" or "they always want to blame America first."

And now our wealth has led to a gradual softening of the American workforce, IMHO, such that Latinos find that hard working people can get paid well (by their standards) in our land.

Nature abhors a vacuum. I am not the cause of this vacuum. I'm just being sucked on by it.

You don't think the taxes have anything to do with that?

Perhaps so but the liberal wing is also more than happy to grab blame first and figure it out at some other point. I contend that the truth lies somewhere in between.

I don't see the wealth as an issue so much as the entitlement mentality. The problem is we have been giving people fish every day and not teaching them to fish. Now, like Pavlov's dog, they don't know how to fish and can only come when the bell rings. That is why they won't work. That is why they won't do manual labor for $8 an hour when they can make $5 sitting on their can. As I said, take away all safety nets and they will either work for $5 an hour in the sun all day long or starve. Those that starve are worthless anyways. Those that work learn the value of work.

Utter BS. Without you and people of your ilk, why would they be here? If you want to profit from them, at least have the honesty to say it out loud and not hide behind vacuum diagrams.

10fords · #**116** 01-19-2010, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

You don't think the taxes have anything to do with that?

Perhaps so but the liberal wing is also more than happy to grab blame first and figure it out at some other point. I contend that the truth lies somewhere in between.

I don't see the wealth as an issue so much as the entitlement mentality. The problem is we have been giving people fish every day and not teaching them to fish. Now, like Pavlov's dog, they don't know how to fish and can only come when the bell rings. That is why they won't work. That is why they won't do manual labor for $8 an hour when they can make $5 sitting on their can. As I said, take away all safety nets and they will either work for $5 an hour in the sun all day long or starve. Those that starve are worthless anyways. Those that work learn the value of work.

Utter BS. Without you and people of your ilk, why would they be here? If you want to profit from them, at least have the honesty to say it out loud and not hide behind vacuum diagrams.

That's exactly what I was thinking. Thanks for making it so clear. I still stand by my principles- I don't give a chit how you are able to rationalize it, breaking the law is breaking the law plain, and simple. It's an interesting path some take to justify their moral weakness. "Because some guys, who I didn't know, or vote for, or have any control over, did some supposed bad things 50 years ago, it's OK for ME to break the law" Brilliant logic!

10fords · #**117** 01-19-2010, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012

Not that you've been aware of. A good bit of our prosperity comes from our ingenuity and hard work. And, unfortunately, an indeterminate amount has come from various beneficial (to us) arrangements around the world that were entered into with varying degrees of honesty and/or justice involved.

Not by accident have we been paying half or less for petrol than Europe and Japan for most of the last 50 or 60 years. Our adventure in Iran, '53 to '79 was not well founded. The conservative wing in America strikes me as being unaware of most of our record in this regard in part, I'm sure, because of this business of always going hyper speed on defensive denial with the "so, it's all our fault, is it?!" or "they always want to blame America first."

Most of the world's poverty is none of our doing but any exploitation by us of poorer nations while our over the top abundance is on full display to the world in our media is not especially prudent.

And now our wealth has led to a gradual softening of the American workforce, IMHO, such that Latinos find that hard working people can get paid well (by their standards) in our land. Nature abhors a vacuum. I am not the cause of this vacuum. I'm just being sucked on by it.

That is mostly my point- and that whole ILLEGAL thing. I'm wondering, if it were prudent, and not on full display to the world, would you be OK with exploitation? It seems to me you're playing both sides of the issue.

aklim · #**118** 01-19-2010, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10fords

That's exactly what I was thinking. Thanks for making it so clear. I still stand by my principles- I don't give a chit how you are able to rationalize it, breaking the law is breaking the law plain, and simple. It's an interesting path some take to justify their moral weakness. "Because some guys, who I didn't know, or vote for, or have any control over, did some supposed bad things 50 years ago, it's OK for ME to break the law" Brilliant logic!

As they say, "If you can't do the time, don't do the crime". Problem is they want to have it both ways. He wants the ease of conducting business but not have to face the moral issues of breaking the law. So, the choices are to say he doesn't support this or that law and/or justifying that he is "just following orders". IIRC, that didn't work very well at Nuremberg.

elchivito · #**119** 01-20-2010, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

Do those 90 murders all come under him or just happened to be in his county but under a different jurisdiction?

If my group has a bad rep, I am thinking that it might be up to my group to change that rep and not rely on someone else to change that rep for me. Maybe your group should not be so supportive of the illegals by say not having that "one day without illegals" march for instance?

It is a misconception on your part that there is widespread support in the native born latino population for illegal immigrants. It's simply not the case. There are significant cultural and linguistic differences between native born latinos and immigrants, and many native born latinos; especially those whose families have always been here, resent the illegals. It is a silly oversimplification to make those citizens responsible for the reputation of another group who also happen to look the same.

aklim · #**120** 01-20-2010, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elchivito

It is a misconception on your part that there is widespread support in the native born latino population for illegal immigrants. It's simply not the case. There are significant cultural and linguistic differences between native born latinos and immigrants, and many native born latinos; especially those whose families have always been here, resent the illegals. It is a silly oversimplification to make those citizens responsible for the reputation of another group who also happen to look the same.

I don't know. What do you call those marches, if not support? Fact is, we cannot distinguish between one and the other. Hell, even as a latino, I'll bet you can't either. As Chinese, I get confused by others into Taiwanese, Japanese, Hong Kong, etc, etc. Even some other from South America bristle when they are mistaken for Mexicans.

Do you want the egalitarian line where we say that we judge each person as an individual or do you want the real life happenings where people are grouped because of their similarity.

As my friend from Taiwan would lecture you if you called her Chinese, maybe that group that is being maligned by others for certain others should stand up and denounce the other group. If you keep silent, what do you expect people to assume? I mean, lets not talk fantasy world where everything is nice and fair. This is real life. As a Latino who got lumped into the group that I didn't want to be in, I would certainly be organizing my own march that says "I don't know those azzholes nor do I support them.". OTOH, if you keep silent, what do you expect others to think?