Kerry, with all due respect, why are you trying to apply logic to this superstitious nonsense?

If that's the case, then Augustine and I are not in agreement. But his writings are of his own opinions, not dogmatic teachings of the Church. If I remember correctly, he also once referred to women as the weaker sex.....

When a straight guy sees a girl and gets a physical response, that simply goes to show that we have a sex drive. That sex drive naturally leads us to procreate and have children. But to think that because a man gets sexually aroused before he may consider having a child with a woman doesn't mean that procreation is not a primary goal of having sex. Sometimes it's the primary goal, other times it isn't. The Church only teaches that all acts of intercourse between a man and wife must be open to the possibility of conceiving. The Church doesn't take it the further step to say that the intention of every sex act must be to conceive. Just that it must leave open the possibility. Thus, during those times of the month when the women most likely will not get pregnant, sex is perfectly allowable even though the couple knows conception is improbable.

__________________

Current:
2014 VW Tiguan SEL 4Motion 43,000 miles.

2016 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport (wife's).

Past:
2006 Jetta TDI 135,970 miles. Sold Nov. '13.
1995 E-320 Special Edition. 220,200 miles. Sold Sept. '07.
1987 190-E 16 valve. 153,000 miles. Sold Feb. '06.
1980 300-D 225,000 miles. Donated to the National Kidney Foundation.
1980 240-D manual, 297,500 miles. Totaled by inattentive driver.

Couple of reasons. 1--Catholic philosophers, some of whom are very influential in Consitututional law around the globe hold these views to be rational and deserving of being embedded in rational constitutions.
2. Catholic justices hold a majority on the Supreme Court and these arguments are being made in current cases about US laws regarding human sexuality. Hence, even if people think they are superstitious, rational discussion is necessary to stop that superstition from getting the upper hand in legal arguments.

3--I think natural law theories of morality are not totally incredible and I think the RC view of human sexuality gives a bad rep to natural law morality. For instance, I think gay people have a 'natural right' to sexual expression and it should be legally protected.

__________________
1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

Exactly. That's what can't be proven by an empirical or rational moral argument and why the argument can't be expected to be accepted by rational people who reject the authority of the RC Church.
It's roughly equal to arguing that since sex is sometimes primarily a method of social domination, then all sexual acts have to be open to the possibility of domination. Human sex is multi-purpose and there's no way to narrow down the purposes to one 'proper' one. We can now reproduce without sex so it's not even essential for reproduction anymore.

__________________
1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

OK, but aren't you helping to legitimize it by responding as if it has some actual merit? Is it possible that it would go away sooner if rational people simply ignored it. The alternative is to get involved in these silly "superman can beat up batman" discussions. What am I missing?

I would have agreed with that attitude in the 1970's thru the mid-80's. Then John Finnis started publishing his books and they are on the shelves of every law school library in the country. Hence, as anachronistic as these discussions are, they seem socially necessary to me, especially since there are a LOT of Catholic law schools in this country and with the Vatican getting more control over what is taught in US Catholic universities, intellectual self-defense seems to make it necessary.

On a personal level, I have seen very promising careers undermined by this theory of sexuality. Two very bright (M/F) Catholic students of mine got married so they could have sex, then had a kid, then both had to drop out of school in order to care for the child. Extra-marital non-reproductive sex would have resulted in far richer lives for them had they been able to complete their education.

__________________
1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

Obviously, this nonsense has a negative impact on society that should be exposed; I'm just questioning the tactic of engaging in detailed debates on "their turf." Why can't we simply disregard any arguments that are based on the existence of a fictional being because they are irrelevant to the real world? Aren't we legitimizing these superstitions by responding to these types of arguments?

I wouldn't bother if they said, "God said so and we obey him". But instead they say, "Our views are not dependent upon God or the Bible but can be derived strictly from the pagan theory of natural law.". Hence, the invitation to debate on purely rational grounds.

And of course, women's reproductive rights including the right to abortion are directly connected to this theory of sexuality. Catholic opposition to abortion derives from the view that an abortion implies that sex was not engaged in for purposes of reproduction.

__________________
1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

but isn't that especially the case with pregnancy from rape/incest, or teenagers with hormones?

__________________
"The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread."

No Kerry,
Catholic oposition to abortion is is based on the belief that an abortion is the taking of an innocent life. The cause of the conception is irrelevant.

__________________

Current:
2014 VW Tiguan SEL 4Motion 43,000 miles.

2016 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport (wife's).

Past:
2006 Jetta TDI 135,970 miles. Sold Nov. '13.
1995 E-320 Special Edition. 220,200 miles. Sold Sept. '07.
1987 190-E 16 valve. 153,000 miles. Sold Feb. '06.
1980 300-D 225,000 miles. Donated to the National Kidney Foundation.
1980 240-D manual, 297,500 miles. Totaled by inattentive driver.