Why Are You Religious, or non/anti-Religious? - Page 24 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

732002 · #**346** 12-08-2010, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billybob

And gay people say the exact same thing, it's a difference of opinion not an assault on the person.

No! most would say God made 90% of us one way and 10% another way
but neither is more right or wrong than the other.

aklim · #**347** 12-08-2010, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 732002

No! most would say God made 90% of us one way and 10% another way
but neither is more right or wrong than the other.

Fine. Let God answer it then. Let him come down and answer for what people say that he said. Let him come and answer to everybody at the same time. Shouldn't be a problem for an omnipotent being, should it?

Billybob · #**348** 12-08-2010, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerry

Can you point to a single instance on any of the recent threads on these topics in which a homosexual has said that hetereosexual sex is wrong?

Well let’s recap what has been said first;

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerry

You're making a distinction without a difference. It's the same as 'I hate the sin' but I 'love the sinner' which really amounts to 'I can't stand you the way you are but if you convert to my way of thinking/behaving/believing, I'll accept you as an equal, but in the meantime, until you do, I wont.'

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billybob

Of course you are entitled to your opinion and your interpretation, but the literal record of what was said by and to who remains. No one called any gay forum members degenerate or disgusting, it did not happen. The fact that some find offence and intent in their own interpretation of the literal record speaks much more about them than it does anyone else.

Your false analogy is colored by your own ability to convince yourself that you know what is in the heart of another. It is demonstrably false in that there are many religious people who demonstrate great compassion and care for others despite the "sinfulness" that they perceive in others. The compassion and care is rendered without the quid pro quo of conversion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerry

It has nothing to do with compassion, it has to do with the fact that the people who utter those statements in the context of homosexuality are saying 'your kind of sex is wrong' and 'my kind of sex is right'.

To which I responded:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billybob

And gay people say the exact same thing, it's a difference of opinion not an assault on the person.

Wherein this particular stream of inquiry started as some element of your hypothetical where an imaginary statement in an imaginary context means something in your imagination, to now you want some evidence from some particular threads of the forum to disprove that

Don’t you think that as in the recent past you've made inaccurate claims and failed to provide evidence supporting those claims that it ought to be incumbent on you to offer some evidence that in any of the recent threads a heterosexual has said “homosexual sex is wrong”?

Because our back and forth had thus far predominately concerned the false claim that forum members called gay forum members "degenerate and disgusting"

For the sake of your question do you mean that "degenerate and disgusting" means the same as "wrong" or should I assume that you have actual verbatim statements "homosexual sex is wrong" and you are eliciting to polar opposite verbatim statements "heterosexual sex is wrong"?

Just trying to understand exactly what you're stating and asking, rather that some interpretation of actual literal statements.

davidmash · #**349** 12-08-2010, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billybob

Of course you are entitled to your opinion and your interpretation, but the literal record of what was said by and to who remains. No one called any gay forum members degenerate or disgusting, it did not happen. The fact that some find offence and intent in their own interpretation of the literal record speaks much more about them than it does anyone else.

Your false analogy is colored by your own ability to convince yourself that you know what is in the heart of another. It is demonstrably false in that there are many religious people who demonstrate great compassion and care for others despite the "sinfulness" that they perceive in others. The compassion and care is rendered without the quid pro quo of conversion.

Lets try it this way.

I think sanctimonious behavior is disgusting. I think you are sanctimonious. Now you fill in the blank.

Billybob · #**350** 12-08-2010, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 732002

No! most would say God made 90% of us one way and 10% another way
but neither is more right or wrong than the other.

Your opinion as to what "most gay people would say" is noted!

davidmash · #**351** 12-08-2010, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billybob

And gay people say the exact same thing, it's a difference of opinion not an assault on the person.

And your opinion on what gays would say is based on what? Have youvinterviewed all gays? Talk about a double standard.

732002 · #**352** 12-08-2010, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billybob

And gay people say the exact same thing, it's a difference of opinion not an assault on the person.

"Your opinion as to what "most gay people would say" is noted!"

Billybob · #**353** 12-08-2010, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidmash

Lets try it this way.

I think sanctimonious behavior is disgusting. I think you are sanctimonious. Now you fill in the blank.

The second sentence is a clear violation of the forum rules as a personal attack, ad hominem perhaps!

The fundamental difference and truth is no one has said to a gay forum member "I think you are (..........) fill in the blank, deviant, degenerate, disgusting, etc." I again defy you to provide evidence of that!

Well, your thoughts are your own, don't hold your breath waiting for me to whimper and complain that your thoughts regarding my behavior are a personal affront/insult/hate or anything else negative. Everyone has the opportunity to access your thinking and can agree or disagree as the may, but I will not attempt to silence you from revealing all that you are.

That's the difference in this entire discussion and the important element within. Liberal theology has sought to construe any disagreement with its tenets as hate, and in fact they have been very successful in implementing Hate Crimes and Hate Speech legislation. These both serve to criminalize one side of the discussion so as to advantage one side over the other.

Billybob · #**354** 12-08-2010, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidmash

And your opinion on what gays would say is based on what? Have youvinterviewed all gays? Talk about a double standard.

As I have simply used the plural gay people I would only need to know of more than one gay person saying it! "Gay people" would cover anywhere from two to an infinite number of gay people because it was in direct respone to Kerry's "the (straight) people". That is why I did not qualify any specific or broad representation of numbers, I didn't say some, few, may, most, all, none, etc.

davidmash · #**355** 12-08-2010, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billybob

As I have simply used the plural gay people I would only need to know of more than one gay person saying it! "Gay people" would cover anywhere from two to an infinite number of gay people because it was in direct respone to Kerry's "the (straight) people". That is why I did not qualify any specific or broad representation of numbers, I didn't say some, few, may, most, all, none, etc.

A simple 'nothing' would have suficed.

davidmash · #**356** 12-08-2010, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billybob

The second sentence is a clear violation of the forum rules as a personal attack, ad hominem perhaps!

The fundamental difference and truth is no one has said to a gay forum member "I think you are (..........) fill in the blank, deviant, degenerate, disgusting, etc." I again defy you to provide evidence of that!

Well, your thoughts are your own, don't hold your breath waiting for me to whimper and complain that your thoughts regarding my behavior are a personal affront/insult/hate or anything else negative. Everyone has the opportunity to access your thinking and can agree or disagree as the may, but I will not attempt to silence you from revealing all that you are.

That's the difference in this entire discussion and the important element within. Liberal theology has sought to construe any disagreement with itsb tenets as hate, and in fact they have been very successful in implementing Hate Crimes and Hate Speech legislation. These both serve to criminalize one side of the discussion so as to advantage one side over the other.

Fine.

I find trait 'x' Disgusting. Peron 'y' has that trait. Now fill in the blank.

N
By calling someones life disgusting I belive you are calling that person.disgusting. Whether you choose to agree or not does not matter in the least.

#**357** 12-08-2010, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidmash

Fine.

I find trait 'x' Disgusting. Peron 'y' has that trait. Now fill in the blank.

N
By calling someones life disgusting I belive you are calling that person.disgusting. Whether you choose to agree or not does not matter in the least.

You must be very bored to still be entertaining this nonsense. "Person y" is not worth spending your time on.

davidmash · #**358** 12-08-2010, 11:01 PM

Not so much bored as principled. How someone can say that someones sexual behavior (which is an intrinsic part of who they are) is disgusting yet the person is not is beyond my understanding (and apparently I am not alone). We are not talking about picking ones nose or biting nails. Sex is a big part of who/what humans are. To say that being gay is disgusting is to say that their love for their partner is wrong and not valid. How can someone not take offense to that?

davidmash · #**359** 12-08-2010, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skid Row Joe

You never had a case in first place.

I accept your coming clean kerry edwards. This must humble you.

Perhaps now the lapdog activities of mashD can have a come-to-Jesus revelation as well....? We can only hope....

Keep the Faith!

Given the fact that I was raised jewish and I am now agnostic I am pretty sure I will not go to Jesus or anyone else.

Just because you say something does not mean it happened. Just because you say it several times does not change the fact that it did not happen.

I never said that the bible supported gays. I have never read the book so I would not know one way or the other.

Post #128

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidmash

I cannot recall when I have heard a church say that being gay is OK and they should be treated as equals under the law. They just sit back and watch the show and as far as I am concerned, that makes them just as guilty.

Then Kerry pointed out

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerry

The Episcopal church, the Methodist church, the Unitarian church and . . . all support gay rights. The Episcopalians even have openly gay bishops. I have lots of Christian friends who strongly support gay rights.

He never said that that the bible condoned it, he said that certain denominations did.

I never said it either. So if you still think we side something that neither of us said, you need to either put up or shut up.

I could be wrong but I am pretty sure Kerry was being sarcastic..... just saying.

kerry · #**360** 12-08-2010, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidmash

I could be wrong but I am pretty sure Kerry was being sarcastic..... just saying.

Nothing wrong there. Reason has its limits, reluctant as I am to admit it.