http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VarayMJDDTE&feature=related

They make very good soldiers, thankfully they are no longer interested in Europe...although today it might not be a bad thing, Europe needs a country with some balls.

The Prussian officer core is also key, they have the leadership that's needed. Finest officers any military has ever created.

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2006 CL500
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2026 Genesis GV70
2007 Tiara 3200

Prussia no longer exists as of May 1945.

It's widely believed that Germany lost the war because of the Allied bombing, and because of the overwhelming amount of men and equipment arrayed against it on all fronts.

Nobody questioned the superiority of its officers, and the soldiers that served under them. The Nazi fuhrer doomed his country when he personally took over the strategy and tactics previously followed by the Generals of the OKW and OKH.

One of the first and most portentious being to order the commander of the 6th Army, Field Marshall Paulus in late winter of 1942 to defend Stalingrad "to the last man", despite the overextended supply lines and the utter ineffectiveness of Goering's air drops to the encircled troops.

From there, it was downhill to the end.


Much has been written about the "German National character" and how it has always translated to its military - courage, utter obedience, iron will, precision, steadfastness, honor, ability to improvise, even under hopeless battlefield conditions, and bravery.

The political dimension and influence is of course outside the purview of this discussion, on OD, other than the noteworthy fact that Germany has existed as a unified nation since 1871;

But the legendary military Germanic tradition, and the names preceded with the noble "von" goes back almost a thousand years to the legendary teutonic knights - in East Prussia.

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1991 560 SEC AMG, 199k <---- 300 hp 10:1 ECE euro HV ...

1995 E 420, 170k "The Red Plum" (sold)

2015 BMW 535i xdrive awd Stage 1 DINAN, 6k, <----364 hp

1967 Mercury Cougar, 49k

2013 Jaguar XF, 20k <----340 hp Supercharged, All Wheel Drive (sold)

"Smarter",simpler more tailored looking uniforms.
Streamlined/Aerodynamic improvements to the Helments.
(Still toting around the "Banners" ALA Imperial Rome...
'Last time a Legion crossed the Danube was ???)

The Torchlight Procession stirs all kinds of Emotions.

That "Almost Dance Step"
(That would NEVER be mis-construed as a "GooseStep")
performed by the Armed Troops gave me shivers in the spine.

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'84 300SD sold
124.128

intelligence or capability is not a social or racial trait, you would find that any country who decides to train an army will find in its population charasmatic, capable and intelligent leadership among its own people. any advantage would come from the number trained and the pool from which to draw officers and men, werein those countries with large populations and the programs to search and train military officers would have a decided advantage. Germany did well in WWII because of training starting very young with brown shirts and the governements will to raise a large force. once other countries caught up, they were not so smart.....

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1982 300CD Turbo (Otis, "ups & downs") parts for sale
2003 TJ with Hemi (to go anywhere, quickly) sold
2001 Excursion Powerstroke (to go dependably)
1970 Mustang 428SCJ (to go fast)
1962 Corvette LS1 (to go in style)
2001 Schwinn Grape Krate 10spd (if all else fails)

The Germans have been pretty much neutered post WW II and turned into peaceniks.'They don't seem to have much of a will to fight in Afghanistan, but at home they moan about Muslim extremists and the whispers about racial purity are getting louder.

But they no longer step up. They just follow the routine.
Goodbye, Columbus (if you ever sawthe movie).

I'd go with the French, they cultivate the image of being cheese-eaters, but they are the second-largest and most-deployed army on the globe, after ours. They are sneaky and effective.

Plus they have a national policy of self-interest, not entitlement. There are a lot of things wrong with the country, but there are some that are right.

They have done tons more to help us in counter-terrorism than the Germans have.

__________________
Strelnik
Invest in America: Buy a Congressman!

1950 170SD
1951 Citroen 11BN
1953 Citroen 11BNF limo
1953 220a project
1959 180D
1960 190D
1960 Borgward Isabella TS 2dr
1983 240D daily driver
1983 380SL
1990 350SDL daily driver alt
3 x Citroen DS21M, down from 5
3 x Citroen 2CV, down from 6

Germans................ are a dying breed.

"Last year 651,000 babies were born in Germany, 30,000 less than the previous year. With only 8.2 children being born for every 1,000 citizens (compared with 9.3 in 2000), and with 10 in 1,000 citizens dying every year, Germany is nowhere near approaching a replacement rate that would keep the population stable."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/may/19/germany-children-birthrate-lowest

The Germans were good in many ways but I disagree they were any better than the Americans.

Our guys were pretty gutty too and were allowed latitude to make decisions and because we were all raised that way we were good at being flexible and creative and finding ways to get things done.

Stalin said "Germans? they are sheep."

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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

In many ways you are right. Hopefully we have not lost the "get it done" attitude in the midst of all this entitlement nonsense.

__________________
Strelnik
Invest in America: Buy a Congressman!

1950 170SD
1951 Citroen 11BN
1953 Citroen 11BNF limo
1953 220a project
1959 180D
1960 190D
1960 Borgward Isabella TS 2dr
1983 240D daily driver
1983 380SL
1990 350SDL daily driver alt
3 x Citroen DS21M, down from 5
3 x Citroen 2CV, down from 6

Well, THAT doesn't exactly comfort me!

Strelnik is right: when and if the time comes to fight non European takeover of Europe, France, our oldest ally, will be in the forefront.

I did a lot of combined forces activity with the Germans, mostly in the 80s. They were somewhat benign, though well equipped and armed. Not a lot of interest in the world, with one exception: it seemed clear, that if the USSR attacked, they would fight to the last man. Surrender was not an option.

I glad everyone is fully prepared to fight the last war.

There's a reason for that: the Russians already owned half their country.

__________________
Strelnik
Invest in America: Buy a Congressman!

1950 170SD
1951 Citroen 11BN
1953 Citroen 11BNF limo
1953 220a project
1959 180D
1960 190D
1960 Borgward Isabella TS 2dr
1983 240D daily driver
1983 380SL
1990 350SDL daily driver alt
3 x Citroen DS21M, down from 5
3 x Citroen 2CV, down from 6

uh, if you reread, you will notice I referenced what the FRG forces were like in the 80s. It was in response to Strelniks opinion of their forces. Of course, there is no more USSR and Reunification occured. Point was they were not much concerned about things outside their borders.

Actually, I was referring to:

"Strelnik is right: when and if the time comes to fight non European takeover of Europe, France, our oldest ally, will be in the forefront."

ah, but that is not the last war, if you mean the last war the western world planned for, ok. But the war I mentioned is the next war. As in the past, Europe is a a prize coveted by the middle east.

If you mean the LAST war, like end of civilization type thing, doubtful, but it will not be pretty....