Why Can't Johhny Read? (in WI) - Page 7 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

JamesDean · #91 02-23-2011, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skid Row Joe

Not in Wisconsin they cannot teach.

Explain how 2 out of 3 kids in eighth grade in WI public schools cannot read?

Your side isn't working. They need to be replaced by non-union workers that WILL teach..

Wrong. It says at proficient levels. 80 some percent are at or above basic.

Its worse in Texas and other southern states. Only 27% are consider at proficient levels. So nearly 3/4 Texas kids are not proficient.

Skid Row Joe · #92 02-23-2011, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesDean

Wrong. It says at proficient levels. 80 some percent are at or above basic.

Wrong answer. You never answered the question.

Explain how it could be, that 2/3 of Wisconsin 8th grade public school children cannot read proficiently - after being taught by government union worker teachers for 8 to 9 years?

Take your time.

Chas H · #93 02-23-2011, 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skid Row Joe

Wrong answer. You never answered the question. Explain how 2/3 cannot read proficiently?

Explain how Texas has lower scores than WI.

Skid Row Joe · #94 02-23-2011, 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chas H

No he didn't. He changed the meaning of my post, which is lying.

Have you alerted the media?

Chas H · #95 02-23-2011, 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skid Row Joe

Have you alerted the media?

Are you done fellating 10fords?

inappropriate

Skid Row Joe · #96 02-23-2011, 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chas H

Explain how Texas has lower scores than WI.

I asked you first on Wisconsin.......

Take your time. Tick-tock-tick-tock............

inappropriate personal attack to inflame

Chas H · #97 02-23-2011, 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skid Row Joe

I asked you first on Wisconsin.......

You did not. You asked another.

JamesDean · #98 02-23-2011, 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skid Row Joe

Wrong answer. You never answered the question. Explain how 2/3 of Wisconsin 8th grade public school children cannot read proficiently?

Take your time.

Several posters have given you reasonable answers including fault in part on the parents, children and the educators.

However you refuse to accept any fault in the parents and children.

"You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink."

The educators can instruct all kinds of information into the children but whether or not the children learn the information and understand it is a function of both the child, parent and the methods used by the educator. The educator cannot be 100% at fault.

You have to at least accept that, any parent will be able to tell you that they've had to help/force/make little Johhny do his homework. Some kids have the drive to do it on their own and achieve, others do not and require more outside influence. We cannot honestly expect the teacher to be 100% of the outside influence in these cases.

Skid Row Joe · #99 02-23-2011, 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesDean

Several posters have given you reasonable answers including fault in part on the parents, children and the educators.

However you refuse to accept any fault in the parents and children.

"You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink."

The educators can instruct all kinds of information into the children but whether or not the children learn the information and understand it is a function of both the child, parent and the methods used by the educator. The educator cannot be 100% at fault.

You have to at least accept that, any parent will be able to tell you that they've had to help/force/make little Johhny do his homework. Some kids have the drive to do it on their own and achieve, others do not and require more outside influence. We cannot honestly expect the teacher to be 100% of the outside influence in these cases.

Concentrate on your failing government union teachers. Since they failed to teach 2/3 of the state's children to read proficiently by the 8th grade. Unbelievable but true nonetheless.

The answer is I believe they are incompetent teachers. You cannot fail to teach 2/3 of Wisconsin's government school children to read proficiently after 9 years of teaching reading. It isn't possible to fail 2 out of 3 children in 9 years unless you are incompetent. 66% of all Wisconsin public school children cannot be that incapable. 10% tops maybe, but not 66% of them. Impossible.

You see, it's children first, and government union workers accountability - something that is blatantly failing the children.

Failed teachers should be terminated. Problem solved. Non-union teachers will do a better job, they always do.

t walgamuth · #**100** 02-23-2011, 06:27 AM

This thread is attracting a lot of very negative action. If you all cannot control your emotions you need to not post.

I infracted one person for changing another person's post which completely changed the meaning of it. I will do that in the future as well.

A lot of name calling and personal attacks as well.

STick to the subject and provide facts please.

I have given warnings and infraction points but some of them have short durations to allow folks to cool off and live again.

I'll be closing the thread if it continues to go downhill.

strelnik · #**101** 02-23-2011, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

It is a 2 part equation. The teacher must want to teach and be competent. The student must want to learn and be able to receive instruction.

Problem is when the teacher is not competent, we can light a fire under them and get them going. When the student is not wanting to learn, there is little you can do

Obviously you have never visited the Detroit school system, where 30% gradumacate high but the rest be stoppin in midle skool

layback40 · #**102** 02-23-2011, 09:10 AM

There appears to be a few basic holes in some arguments being presented.

When a company is failing, the first thing to do is replace the leadership. In this case the fat cat bureaucrats on over $100k that are supposed to run the education system. They have clearly lost the plot & are not managing the system effectively. The education system does not need career bureaucrats, empire builders & self forfilling networkers. It needs effective managers that are not preoccupied with their self interests.
When we get the right people running the education system, they can set the priorities for education as the community dictates. It is clear that not enough time & resources are being spent on basic skills like reading. Maybe too much time is spent on other subjects like PE & similar leisure skills.

A teacher joining a union doesnt automatically change them into being incompetent, nor having them not in a union make them more capable.

Are parents reading to their children & sitting with them while the child reads? Its time to turn the TV & computer off & open story books.

The countries that lead in their education outcomes need to be modeled for improvement.

Education is a very emotive topic.
Ruffled feathers are to be expected.
Dictating who can say what is not appropriate by any one.
We risk turning things into a dictatorship.
Any one who works in the education system needs to declare their involvement as such at the start of each of their posts.

elchivito · #**103** 02-23-2011, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

So is it your contention that because of all of this, our kids are at a disadvantage compared to the rest of the world because they don't have issues for their kids?

No, that isn't my contention at all. I'm merely attempting to point out that the issue is vastly more complicated that whether or not a child's teacher belongs to a union, and that parents and family situation play every bit if not more an important part in a child's success.

JollyRoger · #**104** 02-23-2011, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Txjake

Dept of Education stats indicate:

Two-thirds of the eighth graders in Wisconsin public schools cannot read proficiently according to the U.S. Department of Education, despite the fact that Wisconsin spends more per pupil in its public schools than any other state in the Midwest.

And these are the same bozo taechers ranting in the street? Seems like they s/b back in the calssroom, doing what they are paid to do, instead of taking fake sick days i/o to relive the 60s.

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/two-thirds-wisconsin-public-school-8th-g

"CNS News"? Those guys are a joke. The article contradicts itself, it says the national average is 30% proficiency, so Wisconsin is 2 pts above the national average.

elchivito · #**105** 02-23-2011, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skid Row Joe

Since 2/3 of WI. Johnnys in public schools cannot read in the eighth grade, who cares what his math score is?

trolling

This report doesn't indicate that 2/3 wisconsin's kids "cannot read". I see you've added "proficiently" in later posts. Well done.

The notion that unionization is the cause is unsupportable by evidence. Take another, perhaps more important indicator, the SAT score. There are only 5 states that expressly ban collective bargaining. They are SC, NC, GA, TX and VA. Their SAT ranks are respectively 49th,38th,48th,45th, and 34th These students were prepared for the SAT over a 12 year period by expressly non-union teachers. Teachers who, according to you work for half the pay and do a better job. If you look up WI's SAT rankings, you'll find they rank much higher. Other states are all over the chart. The conclusion can only be that there is no supportable evidence that states with either optional collective bargaining or no collective bargaining do a better job educating students.
From an outsider's prospective, it looks to me like WI's teachers have become the scapegoat for a governor who is trying to give enormous tax breaks to business while attempting to blame his shortfall on unions. And if public employee's unions are the cause of WI's supposed budget woes, why cut out police and firemen from the mandate and allow them to keep their bargaining rights?

I would like to hear from a Texan why Texas' students do so poorly on the SAT, what with their non union teachers doing such a great job and all. Could it be that there are other variables at play? Could it be that it's just not so simple?