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  #91  
Old 04-15-2011, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Botnst View Post
I see no difference between the 'science' behind phrenology, nonverbal cues, ouija boards, horoscopes, crystal gazing, and tarot cards. Any of those can appear to predict some event or behavior. I have prayed about it and this is what the lord has told me.
If someone were to demonstrate some manner in which phrenology, or Tarot cards, or horoscopes, etc., has accurately predicted or described anything, I would be skeptical. Phrenology seems abusrd on its face, though, who knows, small chance there might be some correlation between larger skull/larger, more effective brain. I'm not going to pursue that one, or the others.

Effective interrogators have a trick where they subtly mimic the body language their subject is putting out. Supposedly has a way of putting them at ease.

Zen masters recognize instantly if someone is pretending to be enlightened (not that uncommon in that scene). Teenagers can recognize a phony and will be more attracted to people who aren't putting on airs. How do they know?

The movie '7 Samurai' has a good scene towards the beginning - this after the first samurai has been taken on and he's looking for recruits. He and a couple of others happen upon a samurai duel. One fellow is larger than the other and is convinced he is the better. They do a practice duel with sticks, the larger fellow proclaims victory, the smaller says, 'no, you would have been killed.'

Big guy is offended, says 'no way' and challenges him to an actual duel, which the other fellow reluctantly accepts. The head samurai, meanwhile, is watching all of this, saying 'it's so obvious.'

Watch it yourself (only version with the complete video I could find is dubbed in Italian):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOunibdB0YY

Oh but that's just a MOVIE cmac, woo-ee, nice one dude. I mean really, what the hell would Kurosawa know about samurais and human nature?

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Last edited by cmac2012; 04-16-2011 at 01:30 PM.
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  #92  
Old 04-15-2011, 07:05 PM
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Why of course they work, else why would people follow them so religiously -- so to speak. I mean, who hasn't read yesterday's horoscope and found amazing insight for today's events, if only I had known! Same with tarot, etc.

Or it could be a prediction the other -- I was looking for that to happen, and look, it did!

It's the amazing phenomenon related to people who return from the casino and brag about their winnings and conveniently forgetting the times they went and lost. Or the football pool. It's deja vu all over again.
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  #93  
Old 04-15-2011, 07:13 PM
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Jeez, who would'a thought, a science bigot:

If it ain't been proved to me, it don't exist.

The complex interactions between humans that don't involve the written or spoken words are numerous and huge. The phenomena you refer to are not in the same solar system with what I'm talking about.

Go for it, do your worst. You're way out in right field on this one.
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  #94  
Old 04-15-2011, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by dlssmith View Post
My employer writes a check for 85% of my health insurance premium, I pay for 15%.
Yep, that's what I thought. Understandably you don't get it because you only pay a small fraction of the costs right now.

I suggest you talk to elder relatives on fixed incomes who no longer have company paid benefits. See what they have to say about Medicare vs. the cost(and availability) of private medical insurance at their age. Only then will you begin to understand what it's all about.

Perhaps it would be good idea to start taxing company paid medical as part of employment income. Maybe even do away with medical tax deductions. I'm sure that would go a long way in financing Medicare expenditures.
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Last edited by 450slcguy; 04-15-2011 at 08:12 PM.
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  #95  
Old 04-15-2011, 07:40 PM
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You have no clue, really.

I didn't say what you infer.

What you suppose is a fact is a sort of fact, but it is experiential, not unlike communing with God or nature. I cannot say whether or not a person who claims to be communicating with God through prayer is, or is not. I can say that thus far it is an unproven, untestable hypothesis. Most people believe all sorts of untested unprovable stuff. They maybe true, I don't know.

I wouldn't build a bridge using any of them. For things that are of greatest importance to my life, health and safety, I prefer verifiable facts. I dismiss out of hands those things which are unprovable. I guess this is why I have never been one of those people who joins or abhors personality cults: I just don't give a damn what people say or how they look. I am interested in what they said and then what they do.

Show me the facts. If they are congruous, then I'm generally okay that the mouth and the actions are in sync. If they are incongruous I need go no farther with what they say the next time. This is why I would trust an honest believer over a dishonest nonbeliever. I prefer knowing what to expect rather than surprises. A good surprise is, at worst, unnecessary. A bad surprise can be catastrophic.
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  #96  
Old 04-15-2011, 08:07 PM
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Plenty of people will apply for a position of responsibility and power during the rest of your life, a position that will affect you and on which you have some say.

All of them will claim to have sufficient ass to pull off the job in question. Who do you go with? Especially if the specifics they offer up are similar?

Jimmy Carter did not sell me on his having the proper moxie and clarity of mind for the task.
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  #97  
Old 04-15-2011, 09:18 PM
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Originally Posted by cmac2012 View Post
Plenty of people will apply for a position of responsibility and power during the rest of your life, a position that will affect you and on which you have some say.

All of them will claim to have sufficient ass to pull off the job in question. Who do you go with? Especially if the specifics they offer up are similar?

Jimmy Carter did not sell me on his having the proper moxie and clarity of mind for the task.
I'm in a peculiar situation concerning potential employees. I look first for technical competence, 2nd for educational background and 3rd for team coherence. In what we do there is a high degree of interdependency and negative feedbacks through the course of a project and so, a high degree of trust and a generally tolerance of technical criticism are valuable attributes. Inside of a few weeks most people know whether they will work out. Those who wont usually move to other opportunities within a year, no coaxing necessary. The contracting company I work with has been looking for somebody for a few weeks. They pay a fair salary and have excellent benefits for an entry level sci-tech job. I can usually hold a newbie for about 2-5 years before they go to a better paying job with more responsibility. Advancement in my place is nearly nonexistent.

Over time I have trained a dozen or so people who have done well -- above average -- in their field. One is a VP of a major engineering and surveying firm. Another has his own consulting service. I am extremely proud of them in particular, but I am proud of them all. They are honest and technically competent individuals whom I would work for if the price was right. Or I would hire back if they'd take the pay cut.
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  #98  
Old 04-16-2011, 04:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Botnst View Post
You have no clue, really.

I didn't say what you infer.

What you suppose is a fact is a sort of fact, but it is experiential, not unlike communing with God or nature. I cannot say whether or not a person who claims to be communicating with God through prayer is, or is not. I can say that thus far it is an unproven, untestable hypothesis. Most people believe all sorts of untested unprovable stuff. They maybe true, I don't know.

I wouldn't build a bridge using any of them. For things that are of greatest importance to my life, health and safety, I prefer verifiable facts. I dismiss out of hands those things which are unprovable. I guess this is why I have never been one of those people who joins or abhors personality cults: I just don't give a damn what people say or how they look. I am interested in what they said and then what they do.

Show me the facts. If they are congruous, then I'm generally okay that the mouth and the actions are in sync. If they are incongruous I need go no farther with what they say the next time. This is why I would trust an honest believer over a dishonest nonbeliever. I prefer knowing what to expect rather than surprises. A good surprise is, at worst, unnecessary. A bad surprise can be catastrophic.
I'm going to assume that you know the difference between a woman who is way turned on to your action and wants you to go all caveman on her ass, minus the club, and, a woman who takes a quick look, realizes you're another guy who's hot for her that she's not interested in and looks away.

Assuming no verbal request or rejection of your manhood was uttered, what kind of facts can you cite to back up your knowledge that the correct action with the first is to make the moves and make them well and for the second the correct response is a sort of, 'oh well, keep looking?'

Yes, a bad surprise can be catastrophic. I read about a Lothario in the Bay Area years ago who had a knack for finding lonely women, getting their hopes up high and robbing them blind while doing so. He managed to get away with one woman's entire trust fund she was supposedly saving (from her first marriage) for her son's education. And she couldn't get it back. I saw a picture of the guy. Holy crap, he had 'arrogant lout' rubber stamped in red on his forehead.

A lot of people are pretty naive. They get taken easily, too easily.
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Last edited by cmac2012; 04-16-2011 at 04:39 AM.
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  #99  
Old 04-16-2011, 06:19 AM
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The question is NOT as the President framed it about Medicare for seniors, but it is this---How much can we do for anyone when we are bankrupt? When the economy tanks and the government falls --what then of your grandiose plans to help the poor and sick?

The reality of economic collapse is not something we can afford to ignore--as do the President and his party. Economic collapse is not quite a certainty, but we are fast approaching that point. Or do you not see it?
The Ryan plan, for all it faults is the first realistic look at funding essential programs.
The Presidents' Wednesday speech with Ryan in the front row was a deliberate and mean spirited bullying attack. If I were Ryan, I would have walked out.
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  #100  
Old 04-16-2011, 07:57 AM
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...The Ryan plan, for all it faults is the first realistic look at funding essential programs...
Realistic? Can you name any credible economists who agree with that conclusion? Spend five minutes with google and you will find all kinds of economists ridiculing Ryan's assumptions about unemployment, tuition costs, the housing market, and other things. Why do you disagree with those economists?
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The Presidents' Wednesday speech with Ryan in the front row was a deliberate and mean spirited bullying attack. If I were Ryan, I would have walked out.
Right. That's why the Republicans spoke up after the speech. They understand that what the American people care about is whether the President hurt their feelings, especially when they are so careful to always be respectful of Obama.

Can you cite a single sentence in that speech that was factually wrong or outside the bounds of a good faith difference of opinion?
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  #101  
Old 04-16-2011, 08:14 AM
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Realistic? Can you name any credible economists who agree with that conclusion? Spend five minutes with google and you will find all kinds of economists ridiculing Ryan's assumptions about unemployment, tuition costs, the housing market, and other things. Why do you disagree with those economists?
Unfortunately, this type of nonsense is easy to sell to many americans, especially those who are not doing very well and are looking for someone/something to blame for their failings. It is pretty easy to convince people that they are caught up in some type of economic disaster (the sky is falling on everyone, so it's not you fault) and they need to be rescued. The republicans are simply trying to keep the trailer park wing of their party interested so they can claim they tried to do something during the 2012 campaign. It's just theater; not very convincing, but probably good enough for their intended audience. The party's real power base knows enough to ignore the theater and get back to earning money.
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  #102  
Old 04-16-2011, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by cmac2012 View Post
I'm going to assume that you know the difference between a woman who is way turned on to your action and wants you to go all caveman on her ass, minus the club, and, a woman who takes a quick look, realizes you're another guy who's hot for her that she's not interested in and looks away.

Assuming no verbal request or rejection of your manhood was uttered, what kind of facts can you cite to back up your knowledge that the correct action with the first is to make the moves and make them well and for the second the correct response is a sort of, 'oh well, keep looking?'

Yes, a bad surprise can be catastrophic. I read about a Lothario in the Bay Area years ago who had a knack for finding lonely women, getting their hopes up high and robbing them blind while doing so. He managed to get away with one woman's entire trust fund she was supposedly saving (from her first marriage) for her son's education. And she couldn't get it back. I saw a picture of the guy. Holy crap, he had 'arrogant lout' rubber stamped in red on his forehead.

A lot of people are pretty naive. They get taken easily, too easily.
Perhaps this is why I was never "lucky" with women. Ambiguity is not my strong suit and I have little patience for it. So I probably closed more romantic doors than most men. Doesn't make me unhappy or regretful. I am who I am and have been happily married to the same woman in generally contented monogamy for over 30 years. I have no intention nor interest in looking elsewhere. In my estimation, promiscuity is a manifestation of immaturity. It is mistaking pleasure for romance; and acquaintance with friendship. A shallow, unstable and ultimately limited substitution. But that's just me.
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  #103  
Old 04-16-2011, 10:25 AM
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Unfortunately, this type of nonsense is easy to sell to many americans, especially those who are not doing very well and are looking for someone/something to blame for their failings. It is pretty easy to convince people that they are caught up in some type of economic disaster (the sky is falling on everyone, so it's not you fault) and they need to be rescued. The republicans are simply trying to keep the trailer park wing of their party interested so they can claim they tried to do something during the 2012 campaign. It's just theater; not very convincing, but probably good enough for their intended audience. The party's real power base knows enough to ignore the theater and get back to earning money.
Can't agree more. Joe the plumber is a perfect example.

When you see Ryan with the deficit graph look at the years post WWII, the deficit was going down and the top marginal tax rates were double what they are today.
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  #104  
Old 04-16-2011, 01:20 PM
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Can you cite a single sentence in that speech that was factually wrong or outside the bounds of a good faith difference of opinion?
I could do that. Simply cut and paste all kinds of stuff from web sites, but you'd reject every one. So why even bother?

How much assistance can a bankrupt nation give to anyone?

the dems want to keep giving out goodies from a treasury that is worse than empty. How long can you do that?
How is that even moral?
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  #105  
Old 04-16-2011, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Botnst View Post
Perhaps this is why I was never "lucky" with women. Ambiguity is not my strong suit and I have little patience for it. So I probably closed more romantic doors than most men. Doesn't make me unhappy or regretful. I am who I am and have been happily married to the same woman in generally contented monogamy for over 30 years. I have no intention nor interest in looking elsewhere. In my estimation, promiscuity is a manifestation of immaturity. It is mistaking pleasure for romance; and acquaintance with friendship. A shallow, unstable and ultimately limited substitution. But that's just me.
My post had nothing to do with infidelity or promiscuity. It's the example that came to mind. I've misread women's signals many times but I've gotten better at it. A woman will rarely make a point blank proposition, and the ones who do are a tad strange, in my limited experience.

There is no way you can find 'facts' to back up that sort of communication. However, I have experienced it, as has most everyone. I mean c'mon, you generally know when someone is digging your presence and when they're not. No 'facts' needed and not likely to be forthcoming at any rate.

Is it somewhat accurate to say that a theory is a hypothesis that hasn't been disproved? The scientist who does not stay alert to new evidence is likely to have a limited career.

My Zen teacher spoke of the importance of doubt, of realizing that what you think may be true, may, in fact, not be. He also spoke of people who discover some small bit of truth and set up shop right on the spot, intending to make their living off of that discovery. Not likely to lead to any sort of deep understanding.

If Ryan's line of rap impressed me deeply, I'd be inclined to disregard, to some degree, the non-verbal clues he puts out. But his overly self confident manner, convinced he has the whole truth if only fools will take the time to listen, fits with his words. Not unlike a scientist who thinks he's ready for prime time but isn't.

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