Paul Ryan - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

cmac2012 · #1 04-07-2011, 03:30 AM

I don't like the guy. He's managed to out-chipmunk Romney, and that takes some doing. Bright eyed, eager, and incapable of seeing past his own line of rap.

More tax cuts for the wealthy along with trying to jettison Medicare and replace it with private insurers. Oh boy. The death panels Rs foam at the mouth over are a firm feature of private health insurance.

It'll be interesting if nothing else.

Honus · #2 04-07-2011, 09:12 AM

I suspect and hope that Paul Ryan is a fad. I first heard of him a couple of years ago from a Republican friend who works on Capital Hill. He was portrayed as serious and thoughtful on budgetary issues, which is certainly the image he projects. The problem is that none of his proposals are serious or thoughtful. His numbers don't come close to adding up. The media, of course, ignore the substance of his proposals and keep reporting how courageous he is for tackling the tough issues.

I don't know how this current battle will turn out, but I don't think Paul Ryan will be able to carry the GOP to victory on this one. He is just not very impressive.

We shall see.

pj67coll · #3 04-07-2011, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honus

His numbers don't come close to adding up.

So whose do?

- Peter.

Honus · #4 04-07-2011, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pj67coll

So whose do?

- Peter.

Excellent question. The best answer I can give is that I have no idea. This is a confusing subject for me, plus you can't trust anything you read or hear these days.

On the other hand, I am pretty sure that Ryan's numbers have no basis in reality.

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/04/paul-ryans-absurdly-optimistic-budget-projections-draw-widespread-ridicule.php?ref=fpb

pj67coll · #5 04-07-2011, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honus

Excellent question. The best answer I can give is that I have no idea. This is a confusing subject for me, plus you can't trust anything you read or hear these days.

On the other hand, I am pretty sure that Ryan's numbers have no basis in reality.

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/04/paul-ryans-absurdly-optimistic-budget-projections-draw-widespread-ridicule.php?ref=fpb

That could well be true. On the face of the comments in the link you provided it sounds silly. Of coures Krugman is one of the authorities quoted and I dont think much of him. What I do know is that absent massive changes to the US economy the US will no longer be able to service it's debt sometime in my lifetime, which means that very serious changes need to occur. Ryan's plan may be unrealistic. The other crowd has so far shown no awareness of the disaster that awaits if they continue their present course. None of this bodes well for the US.

- Peter.

tbomachines · #6 04-07-2011, 02:18 PM

2 first names? Sounds suspicious

MS Fowler · #7 04-07-2011, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pj67coll

That could well be true. On the face of the comments in the link you provided it sounds silly. Of coures Krugman is one of the authorities quoted and I dont think much of him. What I do know is that absent massive changes to the US economy the US will no longer be able to service it's debt sometime in my lifetime, which means that very serious changes need to occur. Ryan's plan may be unrealistic. The other crowd has so far shown no awareness of the disaster that awaits if they continue their present course. None of this bodes well for the US.

- Peter.

EXACTLY!
Although, at the present moment, the repubs appear to accept the concept that spending is too great, and must be trimmed, I believe that the GOP leadership is playing politics, too. The roles could easily be reversed between repubs and dems. Tea Party people, for all their faults have made this their issue since their inception.
Has anyone addressed why the President totally ignored the recommendations of his own Blue Ribbon Budget Commission?

TylerH860 · #8 04-07-2011, 03:00 PM

So far he's the only one who has come forward with a way to destroy the deficit. While his approach is extreme and could be done much better, I think even if we chose his plan it would be better than continuing to do what we are doing now.

Let's see some other proposals for the 2012 budget. So far nobody has shown the courage to propose anything really controversial.

SwampYankee · #9 04-07-2011, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TylerH860

Let's see some other proposals for the 2012 budget. So far nobody has shown the courage to propose anything really controversial.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MS Fowler

Has anyone addressed why the President totally ignored the recommendations of his own Blue Ribbon Budget Commission?

The fact that nobody like the Commission's recommendations leads me to believe it was a reasonable.

Honus · #10 04-07-2011, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TylerH860

So far he's the only one who has come forward with a way to destroy the deficit.

Except he's done no such thing. His plan adds to the deficit: http://www.advisorone.com/node/20460

Quote:

While his approach is extreme and could be done much better, I think even if we chose his plan it would be better than continuing to do what we are doing now...

Why?

pj67coll · #11 04-07-2011, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honus

Except he's done no such thing. His plan adds to the deficit: http://www.advisorone.com/node/20460 Why?

That link you provided seems to show a runaway increase in the national debt under the current system and a huge decrease under Ryans proposal. How is this addiing to the deficit?

- Peter.

TylerH860 · #12 04-07-2011, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honus

Except he's done no such thing. His plan adds to the deficit: http://www.advisorone.com/node/20460 Why?

I was going off the bullet points of his proposal. Just the headlines where it was claimed that the deficit would be eliminated. If that's not the case then of course why do it? He believes it to be doing just that, but your source says the opposite. Politics, go figure. They're all liars.

I also never said that I supported it.

This is the nature of the beast. Whatever someone proposes their will be a study with solid evidence against it.

Honus · #13 04-07-2011, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TylerH860

...He believes it to be doing just that, but your source says the opposite. Politics, go figure. They're all liars...

I believe it is the Congressional Budget Office who says that Ryan's plan would increase the debt, at least over the next 10 years. I don't think the people at the CBO are liars. Some on this forum like to bad mouth the CBO, but it is actually a well-respected, non-partisan organization.

Caveat: I have only skimmed parts of the CBO study. I am going on what commentators have said about it. For example: http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/04/cbo-gop-budget-would-increase-debt-then-stick-it-to-medicare-patients.php

Here's the actual CBO report: http://www.scribd.com/doc/52365818/04-05-Ryan-Letter

MS Fowler · #14 04-07-2011, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honus

I believe it is the Congressional Budget Office who says that Ryan's plan would increase the debt, at least over the next 10 years. I don't think the people at the CBO are liars. Some on this forum like to bad mouth the CBO, but it is actually a well-respected, non-partisan organization.

Caveat: I have only skimmed parts of the CBO study. I am going on what commentators have said about it. For example: http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/04/cbo-gop-budget-would-increase-debt-then-stick-it-to-medicare-patients.php

Here's the actual CBO report: http://www.scribd.com/doc/52365818/04-05-Ryan-Letter

The only problem I have with CBO is the rules under which they operate. They are not allowed to evaluate the assumptions given to them. Hence they said that over 10 years the Health care Bill would lower the deficit. They could not evaluate the assumptions, nor the double counting of some of the funds.
They are probably the least partisan outfit in DC. I only wish they were allowed to speak " The truth, the WHOLE truth, and NOTHING BIT the truth."

dlssmith · #15 04-07-2011, 05:37 PM

Spending being what it is, even Ryan's proposal increases the debt in the short term - 10 years. Actually, if you account for current spending without his plan, the debt in the next 10 years isn't going to kill us - it's the 10 years after that to watch for.

Ryan's plan isn't perfect, but if we don't transition Medicare to a system designed like real health insurance, it won't work. It will consume the budget in years to come. Particularly if we add more and more people to it. Government took the easy way out when Medicare was created and has been punting ever since. You cannot make line item expenditures for health expenses without pooling "premiums" like the private sector health insurers do. No so called "single payor" system can work. Ask any experienced actuary. It's not smoke and mirrors, or alchemy. It's insurance 101. It ain't pretty, and some people pay even if they don't use the system (just like safe drivers in the auto market) and everyone complains about the premiums, but it is honestly the best way to manage expenses. Building a profit into it for the insurance companies helps keep them honest too, and gives them an incentive to fight fraud. And fraud and government just go together so perfectly...