No thread would be complete without some fact-free condescension from Mr. B.

Obama reminds more and more of Carter as time passes.

While both were elected and initially seen as populist neither was effective in getting political results in Washington DC.

Also Obama/Reid/Pelosi probably miscalculated with ObamaCare. I suspect they thought once it became a fait accompli that they could move on.

It appears that and the massive and blatant paying off of their 'friends' has further polarized a highly divided nation.

So all this to say that Obama is responsible for his own negative ratings in a manner similar to Bush.

How about objective perspective?

Curious, I have no ox to gore.

I am glad you contribute, find you articulate and considerate.

I don't want to defend or be associated with Fox so I'll set them aside.

The very little exposure I have to MSNBC sure seems to me to be a highly biased, divisive and dishonest network.

I suspect similar or analogous behavior occurs at MSNBC that you identify above with FOX.

Just a perspective.

yes, msnbc, which is part of nbc universal, 49% of which is owned by GE, is pushing a left wing agenda. yes, multinational, multi billion dollar corporations always lean to the left.

any other fantasies, bright boy?

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"The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread."

Nice of you to say so.Biased, yes. Divisive, apparently. Dishonest? Could be, but I haven't seen it. They would have to go quite a ways to catch up with the incredible dishonesty of Fox News.

Here are a few things I found after a few minutes with bing (which might be better than google, as much as it pains me to say so):

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2011/03/02/147702/fox-protest-violent/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/11/jon-stewart-catches-sean_n_353447.html

http://mediamatters.org/research/200904040003

There is a bunch more of that sort of thing from Fox. There was one report they had where they were trying to make a Tea Party rally on the Mall in Washington appear larger than it was. They used aerial photos of a rally from many years earlier and said it was the Tea Party crowd. Unfortunately for Fox, the photo they used was so old, it didn't show the Museum of the American Indian that has since been built at the southeast corner of the Mall. I can't find a link to that one at the moment.

Plenty of media outlets have been caught falsifying things - NBC got caught falsifying a report about exploding gas tanks on Chevy trucks, for example - but is anyone as systematic as Fox with their deception? Maybe MSNBC is, but I haven't seen it.

War is politics by other means.

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CENSORED due to not family friendly words

And it seems we are turning politics into war.
Left against right.
Liberal -v- conservative.

In my opinion there is very little liberal bias to television.
Most media is owned by large corporations, who usually lean right.

There is very little independent media left on television.

I look to the internet to try and find reliable information.
Which can be hard also.

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When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace.
Jimi Hendrix

The assumption around here seems to be that Big Businesses lean to the right.
I believe that is a false assumption. Big Business uses government to protect itself from (costly to profits) competition. The alliance of Big Business with Big government is not good for free market competition, and ultimately for the consumers.

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1982 300SD " Wotan" ..On the road as of Jan 8, 2007 with Historic Tags

Could be. Fortunately I'm not a defender of Fox.

Google certainly seems to be alienating their original support base. I'll have to spend more time with Bing.

The sources you site are highly-biased. The first sentence in wikipedia on media matters identifies them as a progressive organization.

I'd like to see work like this graph from The Quarterly Journal of Economics, an attempt to quantify bias. It was completed about a dozen years ago so MSNBC is not included ---

This graph contends that the specific program Fox News with Brit Hume is as biased as NBC Nightly News. I suspect most of us would view MSNBC News as more extreme than NBC News.

So comparing the FOX News program, not the entire network, to the MSNBC News program, not the entire network, a case can be made that MSNBC News is as based (actually more so) as Fox News.

Extrapolating from their main news program to the network as a whole, at least quantitatively is beyond me. But the QJoE data suggests a qualitative argument could be made.

Keep up the good work...

Media Matters's mission is to discredit Fox and other right-wing media, but the links in my post include the actual Fox video, so I don't think bias is a problem there. Plus, it was the best I could do without spending all day looking.My problem is not with bias, although I suppose that is the nature of the complaint in my original post. My problem with Fox is that they are biased, pretend not to be, and are dishonest. Maybe MSNBC is all of those things. I haven't see the evidence for it.

Sure.

Just thinking, looking, asking, etc.

When I've seen Brit Hume's work or Chris Wallace (a couple times a year) they seemed like reputable journalists.

I liked Juan Williams more when he worked at NPR. He doesn't seem as 'fair and balanced' now as he used to.

So I went and watched your media matter link.

Well, first Hannity (who I have never seen more than about 3 minutes of at any sitting) is an advocate for a perspective not a news host. That is, he editorializes.

My comments have been about the News section of Fox as compared to NBC Nightly and then by possible extrapolation to MSNBC.

I find the advocacy pieces from both sides to almost always be disingenuous (at best), filled with selective editing, remarks taken out of context, and in general vile and debased.

A pox on both of their houses.

If I was back on opiates/muscle-relaxants/cannabinoids I'd watch Rachel Maddow, the ex-sportscaster who recently left MSNBC, etc and then compare selected excerpts with Fox at its worst.

But I'm not and therefore I can't stomach either side of this putrid lying and manipulation that I see as almost universal from every media source.

If one can't think clearly (which given both our educational system and deterioration of our culture is quite rare) and also make an effort, then folks will walk around with strong opinions and no rational basis for them.

Like the nation we live in today.

You think Walmart and exxon and the like are centrist, or lean to the left?

Given the multitude of human rights violations and environmental damage caused
by many of the multinational corporations I cannot fathom how you would think they are centrist, or leftist.

What's your evidence?

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When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace.
Jimi Hendrix

I think entrepreneurs would tend to the right but Big Business, Apple, GM, IBM, etc will serve whoever 'feeds em'. They sure aren't conservative.

Responding to Rich's comment I think Walmart, Exxon will take whatever position, serve whatever master, etc that makes them money. They are the status quo. They want things to continue.

That's why I like entrepreneurs. They see things in a new manner. They are visionaries.

The quote above that big business uses the government to protect them is true. So? Unions use the government to protect them, tree-huggers use the government, etc.

Doesn't every entity try to use the government to protect them?

A, frightfully small group of people want to be left alone to pursue their own vision and improve the world. Once they become established, then they want the government to protect them.

But during the process of creating wealth from untapped potential the government is usually a big PITA.

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