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  #61  
Old 08-12-2011, 01:15 PM
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You are right in terms of individual behavior. It is in fact, codified into law. Essentially, "Following orders" is insufficient defense.

However, this does not give the soldier carte blanche, especially in the face of the enemy. It is mortally perilous to disobey a direct order while in combat.

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  #62  
Old 08-12-2011, 01:20 PM
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It's a delicate balance, a fine line to walk (I need more cliches, Scotty).

One reason I didn't go into the military while Vietnam was on is I didn't want to be in a position of feeling ambivalent about the mission while I and others were in harms way.
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  #63  
Old 08-12-2011, 01:27 PM
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I agree with this but at some point, the moral compass of the average person is the last safeguard against tyranny or at least folly.

One (possibly) will be called upon oneday to answer for what one has done.
If that were true, we (mankind) wouldn't be in the position we are in, now would we?

So they would like to make us believe. Hence the creation of imaginary beings. To warn us that we will either be punished in the next life or in BOTH this life and the next.
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  #64  
Old 08-12-2011, 01:34 PM
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I didn't want to be in a position of feeling ambivalent about the mission while I and others were in harms way.
Is there every a clear feeling about any mission? Many slave traders were probably convinced that they were doing the right thing. Later on, it might be viewed differently. Same as the Nazis in the 3rd Reich.
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  #65  
Old 08-12-2011, 01:40 PM
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All you can do is act on the information you have. Old age brings its own regrets.
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  #66  
Old 08-12-2011, 04:19 PM
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I agree, neither side is all good or all bad.
But we do have to make judgments on an individual basis.
I was not trying to paint any group with a broad brush.
I was trying to understand how someone could believe that large corporations could be considered a liberal idea.

What is this "wealth creation" you seem to hold above the concept of compassion ?
I appreciate the questions.

I wouldn't say massive corps are liberal. I'd say they're whores. They'll sleep with whoever pays them. Sometimes the left, sometimes the right, etc.

My perspective is that that seeing them as only right-wing misses what they are. They'd sell their mother for the right price.

Let's just talk about compassion for a moment. I love the idea but the implementation is tricky. I see bumper stickers saying, "no more war," or "war is not the answer."

Nice sentiment. I'll bet you the survivors at Auschewitz don't share that view. As I said earlier before Jorn got all apoplectic I'm sure the folks at Srebenica wished the Dutch military was more concerned about their military prowess instead of their social agenda.

I see this level of childish thinking all around.

So I suggest a question is how to optimize the level of compassion in the world.

In fact I think that is a fundamental difference between left/right thinking. The right wants to maximize the overall level of desirable qualities. The left does not like that because it causes increased stratification and disparity.

The lefts answer is to lower the overall level but decrease the gap between the highest and the lowest.

These aren't words I hurl to make a point. They are very real. For example, overall education levels were higher before the left 'improved' things. Another example, the fabric of black society was much better before Johnson's great society. The list is quite long.

Wealth creation is simple. Where does your paycheck come from? The government does not create wealth. It takes it from me and you. When I look at a beach and see that sand can become silicon chips and I create Intel I have created wealth. Now 10,000 people can feed their families because I created wealth.

Progressives do not understand wealth creation. They live in a fantasy land. But their world is academia, civil service, unions, trial-lawyers and the government. None of those areas create wealth, they take it.

There is true money, wealth (not the bogus stuff the fed prints whenever it wants) that exists today only because I was alive. If I was not born, unless someone else had my vision, it would not exist.

By creating wealth one enables families to eat, have a home and build for a future.

The socks from Bangladesh that you think are terrible may be the best thing that happened to the people who make them. You look at their conditions and say, "how terrible." They reply, it's the best thing that has happened to us in our lifetimes.

Life is much more complex than the simple scenarios the profs paint at the blackboard. But then almost everyone of them couldn't hack it in the 'real world' so they have withdrawn to the fantasy land of academia and then tell others how things ought to be. I suppose that is a necessary evil but I don't want their dysfunctionalism to pollute the next generation.

Thanks for the reply.

Last edited by sjh; 08-12-2011 at 04:29 PM.
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  #67  
Old 08-12-2011, 04:19 PM
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It is funny you said that.
Hopefully you can figure this one out on your own.
I'm pretty sure he's joking.

But your right, with text only you can never tell.
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  #68  
Old 08-12-2011, 04:21 PM
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Bush got much more of a honeymoon than Obama. There was some friction before 9/11 but nothing like the wall of NO that was erected for Obama in Jan. '09. Bush sowed the seeds of the opposition to him many times. Rarely has a guy less qualified risen to that sort of power, here anyway.
He over-reached with health care.

Clinton made a similar error with homosexuals in the military. But Clinton was a much smarter politician and he recognized his error and stepped back.
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  #69  
Old 08-13-2011, 03:22 AM
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If that were true, we (mankind) wouldn't be in the position we are in, now would we?

So they would like to make us believe. Hence the creation of imaginary beings. To warn us that we will either be punished in the next life or in BOTH this life and the next.
The sum total of your experience and conclusions does not define the universe.

My experience is that folly has its penalty in this lifetime reliably enough. As for what comes after, it's a mystery. You cannot prove your conclusions about that any better than anyone else.
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Last edited by cmac2012; 08-13-2011 at 03:39 AM.
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  #70  
Old 08-13-2011, 03:38 AM
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He over-reached with health care.

Clinton made a similar error with homosexuals in the military. But Clinton was a much smarter politician and he recognized his error and stepped back.
I heard a fellow in the IDF say that they were OK with gays serving in their military. He said, 'if you are willing to die for us, that is enough.'

The health care bill is badly flawed. Requiring people to buy insurance was not likely to work. OTOH, many people want more and better health care than they are able or willing to pay for.

And THAT'S why I want the gubmint to keep its hands off'n of my Medicare.
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  #71  
Old 08-13-2011, 08:04 AM
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I'm pretty sure he's joking.

But your right, with text only you can never tell.
There are layers of, not so subtle innuendo in both posts. Hopefully?
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  #72  
Old 08-13-2011, 09:15 AM
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The sum total of your experience and conclusions does not define the universe.

My experience is that folly has its penalty in this lifetime reliably enough. As for what comes after, it's a mystery. You cannot prove your conclusions about that any better than anyone else.
Lets talk about Madoff then. How many years do you think he will end up serving for all the good years he had at the expense of others. He is at the end of his life now so lets talk numbers.

How many years would YOU say he deserves and how many years do you think he will actually serve?
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  #73  
Old 08-13-2011, 11:14 AM
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I heard a fellow in the IDF say that they were OK with gays serving in their military. He said, 'if you are willing to die for us, that is enough.'...
I'm not a military man. If the military believes it is appropriate - so be it.

I wasn't making a value judgement. Just saying it took a lot of Clinton's political capital and he backed way.

BO used up a lot of his political capital on health care.

In hindsight he may wish he had spent that capital elsewhere.

.
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  #74  
Old 08-13-2011, 10:40 PM
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I'm not a military man. If the military believes it is appropriate - so be it.

I wasn't making a value judgement. Just saying it took a lot of Clinton's political capital and he backed way.

BO used up a lot of his political capital on health care.

In hindsight he may wish he had spent that capital elsewhere.
.
I'll bet you're right on that one.
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  #75  
Old 08-13-2011, 11:36 PM
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I'll bet you're right on that one.
I'm not sure.

He might be a true believer.

Maybe he thinks what he did is so good that even if he loses it was worth it.

I don't know. The man is enigmatic. He seems like Clinton in some ways in that apparently he set a goal for himself and remained focused on it for decades.

That's quite a skill.

.

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