Elect Gov. Perry - Page 11 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

crs82 · #**151** 08-16-2011, 10:21 AM

I don't know. Religion, as many practice it, is as valuable to them in this life as it is in the afterlife. In general, religious people are happier, recover more quickly from illnesses (while under the care of a real doctor

), usually have a larger sphere of friends and acquaintances (due to membership at a church, synagogue, mosque, etc.), and have a largely positive outlook on life. That kind of takes care of the "bad situation" you describe. And if, as you believe, there is no afterlife of any kind, what else is there for them to worry about anyway?

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

Perhaps so but an opiate does little for the illness in general. It relieves the pain but still leaves the core issue there. In a general sense, if I broke your leg but gave you enough pain drugs, you won't feel the broken leg and you will probably feel pretty good. HOWEVER, your leg is still broken and needs to be set properly. Take a cough. Opiates will calm down the cough but it won't help your cold or lung cancer. In a general sense, opium, like religion, makes your pain go away but does nothing to cure your bad situation. It makes it more tolerable with false hope, is all

sjh · #**152** 08-16-2011, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crs82

I don't know. Religion, as many practice it, is as valuable to them in this life as it is in the afterlife. In general, religious people are happier, recover more quickly from illnesses (while under the care of a real doctor

), usually have a larger sphere of friends and acquaintances (due to membership at a church, synagogue, mosque, etc.), and have a largely positive outlook on life. That kind of takes care of the "bad situation" you describe. And if, as you believe, there is no afterlife of any kind, what else is there for them to worry about anyway?

.

Nice response.

The intense hatred some display towards Faith I think reveals more about them than the Faithful they hate.

Religious folks also donate more to charity, even when you exclude donations to their religious activities.

Be well.

.

kerry · #**153** 08-16-2011, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crs82

I don't know. Religion, as many practice it, is as valuable to them in this life as it is in the afterlife. In general, religious people are happier, recover more quickly from illnesses (while under the care of a real doctor

), usually have a larger sphere of friends and acquaintances (due to membership at a church, synagogue, mosque, etc.), and have a largely positive outlook on life. That kind of takes care of the "bad situation" you describe. And if, as you believe, there is no afterlife of any kind, what else is there for them to worry about anyway?

It's not that simple. Look at the 'Wives submit to your husbands' opiate. It kept women happy in subordinate positions for thousands of years, thinking they were doing god's will. Was it good for society as a whole? Are we better as a species educating women and allowing them equal power in the family, society, politics and industry? Seems to me we are. It's a tremendous waste of human capital to limit women to household tasks who could be soldiers, biologists, presidents, factory workers etc.

Same could be said of the opiate, "The Bible says it, I believe it, end of discussion." It keeps people secure, it makes life easier, and keeps in place a social order which has been around for a few thousand years. Are we better as a species because of it? Certainly not if your gay or a woman or Native American, an atheist etc.

pj67coll · #**154** 08-16-2011, 10:45 AM

From what I've heard of him so far, if Perry or another bible thumper are the rep nominee then incredibly enough I'll probably be voting for Obama. Quite remarkable since I voted for McCain last time around.

- Peter.

sjh · #**155** 08-16-2011, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pj67coll

From what I've heard of him so far, if Perry or another bible thumper are the rep nominee then incredibly enough I'll probably be voting for Obama. Quite remarkable since I voted for McCain last time around.

- Peter.

.

I sure don't see how Perry is the answer for anything.

I liked McCain/Lieberman but that ship has already sailed.

.

pj67coll · #**156** 08-16-2011, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sjh

.

I sure don't see how Perry is the answer for anything.

I liked McCain/Lieberman but that ship has already sailed.

.

Me too.

- Peter.

sjh · #**157** 08-16-2011, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pj67coll

Me too.

- Peter.

.

Well shucks.

I might be visiting Prescott in the month or two. If it's worth the drive we could share a meal.

Heck, let's met at Arcosanti and see the brave-new world of the boomers.

I use to work there so that shows you how whacked out I use to be.

.

MS Fowler · #**158** 08-16-2011, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerry

It's not that simple. Look at the 'Wives submit to your husbands' opiate. It kept women happy in subordinate positions for thousands of years, thinking they were doing god's will. Was it good for society as a whole? Are we better as a species educating women and allowing them equal power in the family, society, politics and industry? Seems to me we are. It's a tremendous waste of human capital to limit women to household tasks who could be soldiers, biologists, presidents, factory workers etc.

Same could be said of the opiate, "The Bible says it, I believe it, end of discussion." It keeps people secure, it makes life easier, and keeps in place a social order which has been around for a few thousand years. Are we better as a species because of it? Certainly not if your gay or a woman or Native American, an atheist etc.

Thw " Wives submit..." passage is one of the most misunderstood passages in the entire Bible--not only by skeptics, but by many purported believers.
As I have said in the past "Any (biblical) text without its context is a pretext."
This one is the same. The context puts a very different light on it. The context includes the command, " Husbands, love your wife, as Christ loved the Church". Christ's love for the Church led him to die for it. How many husbands love their wives in the same selfless way? Not many.
The "submission" is often portrayed as arbitrary as Capt. Bligh from Mutiny on the Bounty fame--where his word is never to be questioned.
The Biblical is far more balanced than critics want to accept.

kerry · #**159** 08-16-2011, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MS Fowler

Thw " Wives submit..." passage is one of the most misunderstood passages in the entire Bible--not only by skeptics, but by many purported believers.
As I have said in the past "Any (biblical) text without its context is a pretext."
This one is the same. The context puts a very different light on it. The context includes the command, " Husbands, love your wife, as Christ loved the Church". Christ's love for the Church led him to die for it. How many husbands love their wives in the same selfless way? Not many.
The "submission" is often portrayed as arbitrary as Capt. Bligh from Mutiny on the Bounty fame--where his word is never to be questioned.
The Biblical is far more balanced than critics want to accept.

Are you saying that a husband's love for his wife permitted her to work outside the home, be educated, hold political power own property, refuse to reproduce, and be head of a household?

MS Fowler · #**160** 08-16-2011, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerry

Are you saying that a husband's love for his wife permitted her to work outside the home, be educated, hold political power own property, refuse to reproduce, and be head of a household?

What do you know about selfless love? ( Not an antagonistic question) Selfless love is different than simply letting someone do whatever they say they want, but neither is it abusive or demeaqning.

I do not expect anyone to agree, I just want to state the Biblical view a little more correctly than it is typically presented.

aklim · #**161** 08-16-2011, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MS Fowler

What do you know about selfless love?

Do tell. Is it selfless love when one receives payment BUT in a different coin? Is it selfless love for me to give a hooker money and get nothing back except that I got my jollies? I think not. I am being repaid for my supporting her life but in a different coin.

MS Fowler · #**162** 08-16-2011, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

Do tell. Is it selfless love when one receives payment BUT in a different coin? Is it selfless love for me to give a hooker money and get nothing back except that I got my jollies? I think not. I am being repaid for my supporting her life but in a different coin.

No, that is not what I am talking about.

kerry · #**163** 08-16-2011, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MS Fowler

What do you know about selfless love? ( Not an antagonistic question) Selfless love is different than simply letting someone do whatever they say they want, but neither is it abusive or demeaqning.

I do not expect anyone to agree, I just want to state the Biblical view a little more correctly than it is typically presented.

Not sure what you mean by this? Are you saying that it is the loving thing to do to forbid women to work outside the home, be educated, own property, have political power etc? If so, can you elaborate on it some more. Seems to me to be oppression, domestic slavery so to speak. (I also think that owners loved their slaves in some instances)

sjh · #**164** 08-16-2011, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MS Fowler

Thw " Wives submit..." passage is one of the most misunderstood passages in the entire Bible--not only by skeptics, but by many purported believers.
As I have said in the past "Any (biblical) text without its context is a pretext."
This one is the same. The context puts a very different light on it. The context includes the command, " Husbands, love your wife, as Christ loved the Church". Christ's love for the Church led him to die for it. How many husbands love their wives in the same selfless way? Not many.
The "submission" is often portrayed as arbitrary as Capt. Bligh from Mutiny on the Bounty fame--where his word is never to be questioned.
The Biblical is far more balanced than critics want to accept.

Nicely said MS.

People extract llittle snippets here and there and find what they want to hear.

I notice in the news today that both The Atlantic and the Washington Post had articles by authors stating that the main message of Jesus was socialism.

If you had a student read the 27 books in the NT or just the Red Letters of Jesus, completely independent of one's religious views and the y concluded that he came to earth to promote socialism would you pass that student?

Come on, let's be honest. Is that the message of those 27 books?

.

kerry · #**165** 08-16-2011, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sjh

People extract llittle snippets here and there and find what they want to hear.

.

Are you saying the subservience of women is only found in a little snippet in the bible and is not pervasive throughout the book and that the persistent policies of sexual inequality throughout virtually every Christian movement until recent times was at odds with biblical ideas?