The example was provided by MSNBC not me. Your quote should be, "sounds a lot like MSNBC example" but hey, let's not let accuracy get in the way.

Note clarity and objective use of words, this is a traditional Christian and by inference his Christianity is a reason he did what he did.

That's very sad.

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Who is responsible for me

1. Me
2. My parents
3. My community; defined by shared-values/activities/associations
4. My culture/society
5. My government

Now go through the list from 1 to 5 and determine where the breakdown(s) occurred.

After one address 1 through 4 then come take my money via the government in step 5.

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Very well put. Some people find it much easier to judge especially if its not something they know personally. Unfortunately empathy doesn't come naturally to everyone.

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You mean like judging people because of their religious views -- that kind of judgement?

Yeah I really noticed that, plus sugar filled drinks like Monster and soda.

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2016 Corvette Stingray 2LT
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

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For 10 points show, specifically identify the moral/ethical/personal cruelty,

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So apparently myself and Christianity are culpable but somehow ...
Have nothing to do with it.

OK, I'm guilty as charged.

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Uhhh...I believe he was referring to my hypothetical 30 yo white christian male, not the article's example. But hey, let's not let paying attention get in the way.

And for accuracy, it's actually an AP article hosted on MSNBC and
others, to include the UK's Daily Mail, and various and sundry independent sites. Must be that vast left wing conspiracy spreading propaganda again.

George Bernard Shaw had a nice quote about pigs and wrestling. But he was probably too liberal a source for your liking.

And I just learned that the "ignore" feature really is easy to use. On the User CP; Settings and Options.

You just found that.

Win a prize for the sharpest knife in the drawer.

Yep, repeat the same story in 10 different papers and then it MUST be true.

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No it is not your fault he was pretending to be a traditional Christian. I am a Christian myself so it is no flaw in that respect. He is a jerk. My daughter made a poor choice in marrying him.

I don't see how any of this fits into your viewpoint of people caught in unfortunate circumstances automatically are in that circmustance because they or their parents did not do a good enough job measuring up to your idealized mythical standard.

Christ said, "let he who is without sin cast the first stone".

Let that thought be my gift to you for the day.

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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

Excellent example of good use of public funds. The problem is that this is, it seems, not only not the norm, it is a highly rare case. What is the norm is for people to get on the dole and stay there, and then encourage their children to do the same, which begets more children to do the same. If we take all the people and money that goes down this hole and compare it to those that would "make it" without the government help- it begs the question- is it worth it? Could those same people as shown in this example make it with private non profit help? The answers to those questions boils down to individuals' answers- and my answer is the government use of my money is wasted by in large. It was not wasted on her, and so if we could give more money to private non profit help of our choice instead of the to the government we would have more control of it and get better results. Your choice is that my money- and perhaps yours- it best spent by the government, and my choice is that it is not. Yet you want to dictate to me how my money is spent- which I strongly disagree with. Why is it easy? Because we have made the hard decisions to forgo stupid courses of actions and become productive members of society? Why does not preclude empathy? Could it be because you assume? Are you also saying people who work hard and work smart and become productive members of society are simple minded? Isn't it the other way around- those that leech off society are simple minded? (and this example is is not a leech- she just needed a helping hand- not a permanent stipend)

I'm not sure where I said someone is automatically anything.

My message pretty consistently has been that too many folks see were they are as a result of other people actions instead of their own.

Not sure what stone I cast. Don't think encouraging self-honesty is an act of cruelty or aggression.

I'm sure your daughter's life is very hard and a source of great challenge for her, you and those that care for her.

I think if you look at where you interjected her story into this conversation and the manner in which you did so 'opened the door' for a discussion about personal responsibility.

Allow me to share a verse for all of us, "...to know the love of Christ which surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled up to all the fullness of God."

Be well.

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Originally Posted by elchivito "... I suspect we can all tell those tales...."

Don't we all want these types of successes both for all who have slipped and for our tax dollars?

I contend the issue is more the overall consequences of our current policies and that there are far superior ways to accomplish shared goals.

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Originally Posted by elchivito ...
'It's real easy for those who haven't suffered the indignity of public aid to scoff and pass judgement. The reality is much sadder, and much more complicated. Simple minds seek simple solutions.'

Fail to see how examining social policy and economic economic consequences is being judgmental. Society, makes decisions, examines, evaluates, discusses, etc.

Your attempt to 'muzzle' my perspective, to reduce it to the level of the absurd or inane or reprehensible, doesn't address my comments. It just means you don't think much of me. Join the list.

Oh, you know nothing of my torturous journey. Assuming it to be one thing or another so you may argue thusly is indicative of 'Simple minds seek[ing] simple solutions.'

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Coffee sprays on computer screen. ROFLMAO.

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Never a dull moment at Berry Hill Farm.

I'm not attempting to muzzle anything, merely responding in my fashion. Once again we get a dose of your torturous journey and how nobody likes you and boo hoo. Discussion with you has too many conditions so I won't be doing it. I will however comment whenever and however I decide to within the guidelines set forth here. You have options if you don't like it.

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You're a daisy if you do.
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84 Euro 240D 4spd. 220.5k sold
04 Honda Element AWD
1985 F150 XLT 4x4, 351W with 270k miles, hay hauler
1997 Suzuki Sidekick 4x4
1993 Toyota 4wd Pickup 226K and counting

SJH's comments are officially sanctioned by Jesus. You don't want to get into a argument with Jesus now do you... punk?
[IMG]http://****ups.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/angrychrist.jpg[/IMG]

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Sounds like the conditions are not for the simple minded if I say so myself. From my view he asks you to respond to his specific comments, not about what or where you think he gets his views from. Care to discuss my response to your "example"?