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JollyRoger · #46 10-19-2011, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LarryBible

Economic inequality? You mean someone who is unwilling to apply themselves or lacks the patience to pay their dues by starting at the bottom, working hard and pulling themselves up?

Actually, we mean the people screwed over by the big banks who took billions in free government money after pissing away all of theirs on derivative schemes, sending the economy into a tail spin from which it is yet to recover, causing millions to lose their homes and jobs. Tell me, how is stealing the public's money "pulling themselves up"? We have a system of socialism for the rich, where risk has no downside, because if you mismanage and lose trillions, we the public get to pick up the tab for them. Why is that?

JollyRoger · #47 10-19-2011, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LarryBible

Is the economy challenging for entry level people? YES!

Does this mean that they have the right to take money from the rest of us while they sit on their A$$? NO!

When times are challenging it means a longer, tougher road.

Except for the paid protestors, the ones sitting on their A$$ at the protests are not making any money and are making no effort to do so. They need to go back home and find some work of some kind and put everything they've got into it. Is it easy? NO! Does it mean they might have to haul hay or mow lawns or flip burgers? PROBABLY! I've BTDT and it was HARD, but in the end it did great things for me in many different ways.

Whatever it takes, they need to get off their A$$ and go do SOMETHING productive.

Why did the big banks have the right to take money from the rest of us?

Air&Road · #48 10-19-2011, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tbomachines

Yup, they both start with the general thought that the economy is bad...so lets do something about it. The way to get out of the current situation seems vastly different though

. One big key difference is the area of funding. The Tea Party has a lot of money behind it, the TP Express bus, etc. I would suspect their public support of capitalism earns them some big bucks (great business model for a nonprofit too) but that would be nothing without the individual supporters. It'll be interesting to see how the issue of funding turns out for OWS, at the moment it seems to be mainly volunteers but in comparison to the TP, they are relatively young and are only beginning to gain traction.

HMMM.... Let's think about this a little, shall we? The Tea Party consists of people that drag their A$$'s out of bed in the morning and go work. When you work you have money. If you have money then you can choose to spend some of it to go to DC for a demonstration.

The kids on Wall Street don't have jobs because they're sitting their A$$'s on Wall Street instead of doing something like finding a lawn that needs mowing or whatever else they can do to EARN a buck. The key word here that throws them is EARN.

Air&Road · #49 10-19-2011, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JollyRoger

Actually, we mean the people screwed over by the big banks who took billions in free government money after pissing away all of theirs on derivative schemes, sending the economy into a tail spin from which it is yet to recover, causing millions to lose their homes and jobs. Tell me, how is stealing the public's money "pulling themselves up"? We have a system of socialism for the rich, where risk has no downside, because if you mismanage and lose trillions, we the public get to pick up the tab for them. Why is that?

Tell me! Just how did the banks take any money from anyone? They were GIVEN the money by the Bozo politicians, all of them, in DC. Go protest in DC.

Air&Road · #50 10-19-2011, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JollyRoger

Why did the big banks have the right to take money from the rest of us?

Okay, for the sake of discussion, let's say the banks DID "take" money, even though in reality, the politicians gave it to them. This has nothing to do with the lazy kids defacating on police cars.

They can NOT help themselves living like slobs on the street. They need to go find some work that needs to be done and DO it.

Dodd/Frank caused the housing bubble that led to the crooked bankers doing their dirty deed. Go protest in front of one of their houses if you're too lazy to work.

elchivito · #51 10-19-2011, 02:31 PM

I don't know how you can make assumptions about either the tea party OR the wall street protesters Larry.
From my perspective, most of the tea party rallies appeared to be populated mostly by retired, fat old white geezers who no longer work and have earned theirs and screw everybody else. Lots of walkers and motorized scooters to carry around their abundant bulk. Having said that, I'm sure not all tea party folks fit that mold. I wasn't there, so I can't say for sure.
Most of the wall street protesters I'm seeing on the news seem to be younger, working age, lots of ethnic variation. I see idealistic I'll show up to protest anything types, but I also am seeing interviews with 30-40 year old working class people who have been out of work for a long time and want to know why the rich are still getting richer when there are no jobs. I haven't been to a protest, so I'm sure my view of them is over simplified as well and colored by my own biases.
Will you admit at least that your characterization of the tea party as well as the wall street posters might be just a teeny, tiny, itty bitty very small bit influenced by your own opinions?

tbomachines · #52 10-19-2011, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LarryBible

HMMM.... Let's think about this a little, shall we? The Tea Party consists of people that drag their A$$'s out of bed in the morning and go work. When you work you have money. If you have money then you can choose to spend some of it to go to DC for a demonstration.

The kids on Wall Street don't have jobs because they're sitting their A$$'s on Wall Street instead of doing something like finding a lawn that needs mowing or whatever else they can do to EARN a buck. The key word here that throws them is EARN.

Well you've certainly demonstrated Swamp's point rather nicely.

I don't know how many times I have to repeat myself, if other threads are any indication you will refuse to actually read and understand what I'm saying. THERE ARE NO JOBS for many of these people. $5 here and there does not pay the bills, and I'm willing to bet most of those folks would mow lawns if given the chance. Furthermore you're essentially asking them to work for well under the minimum wage which was implemented for this very reason. ALSO, and perhaps this is unique to my own personal connections, many MANY of the people I know who are jobless and support the movement volunteer hours upon hours in non-profit orgs to keep their resumes up to par. As usual, your perceptions are very oddly skewed to support your political motivation.

Air&Road · #53 10-19-2011, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tbomachines

Well you've certainly demonstrated Swamp's point rather nicely.

I don't know how many times I have to repeat myself, if other threads are any indication you will refuse to actually read and understand what I'm saying. THERE ARE NO JOBS for many of these people. $5 here and there does not pay the bills, and I'm willing to bet most of those folks would mow lawns if given the chance. Furthermore you're essentially asking them to work for well under the minimum wage which was implemented for this very reason. ALSO, and perhaps this is unique to my own personal connections, many MANY of the people I know who are jobless and support the movement volunteer hours upon hours in non-profit orgs to keep their resumes up to par. As usual, your perceptions are very oddly skewed to support your political motivation.

Okay, I'm hungry. I can't get a job that is at the minimum wage? Okay, I'll just set here and die of starvation because I wouldn't want to mow that yard for less than the minimum wage. Is this a picture of laziness, or what?

There were no formal jobs for me when I was a kid, but I managed to get by with NO handouts. I mowed yards, hauled hay and these efforts led to something better. You show people you're not afraid of work and you will get work.

It is quite unfortunate, but as our country moves rapidly towards socialism, people learn that they will get a hand out, thus they LEARN that they don't HAVE to work. They can sit on their A$$ until someone comes along and feeds them.

Very sad.

Show me a kid or anyone that is down on their luck and is out mowing a yard or hauling hay to try to eat, and I'll show you someone that I and many others want to help.

Conversely show me someone sitting on their A$$ asking for a handout and is apparantly healthy enough to work and I will walk right by that person with no bad conscience at all.

Times are tough! I got it! Tough times call for tough measures.

BTW, this has nothing to do with politics. It has to do with effort, determination and taking responsibility for ones own life rather than EXPECT someone else to take care of you because you're too damn lazy to do it yourself.

If times are hard you have to sell the fancy car. If you have a ragged car, you might even have to sell it. It is NO ONE's responsibility except ones SELF to care for ones SELF!

Air&Road · #54 10-19-2011, 03:37 PM

Someone I work with was telling me about something that happened a few weeks ago.

This persons husband was at a neighbor's place feeding their horses while they were away. A guy came up horseback, riding one and leading another. It was a hot day and he asked if he could water his horses. Jim is my coworkers husbands name and he told the guy that it would be fine with him except the owner of the place was really persnickity about his troughs. (The reason for this is that public watering troughs pass diseases between animals.)

The guy was very good about it and said that he understood. Jim told him that he lived down the road a couple of miles and he had a trough he would gladly fill for the mans horses. The guy came down there and by the time he could get there Jim told his wife and his wife started fixing a plate of food for the man. The man watered the horses and Jim threw down some hay for them. The man scarfed up the food and was obviously hungry.

In visiting with the man, Jim learned that he was out of work and was trying to get to a place in Oklahoma where he knew some people and thought he could get work. Jim let him stay the night and was worried about him getting across the Red River bridge on Monday morning with the horses because of the morning traffic. He hitched up his trailer and took the man and his horses over the bridge the next morning and made sure he had food and water. Jim was late to work because of it.

Now here's a man seriously down on his luck, but he was asking for no handouts. He was taking matters in his own hands asking no one for anything besides water for his horses. Because he was trying to help himself he got voluntary help from someone else.

The lazy kids on Wall Street could learn something from this guy.

SwampYankee · #55 10-19-2011, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tbomachines

Well you've certainly demonstrated Swamp's point rather nicely.

Actually I tend to agree with a lot of the original T.E.A. Party message, which was get the financial situation in order and that was pretty much it. Unfortunately a few random racist @$$hats and too many establishment Republicans have weaseled in (with hopes of garnering TP support) and have become the "face" of it and the message has been co opted.

My only real point was the Tea Party isn't a racist group just like OWS isn't an anti-Semitic gathering even though there may be some @$$hat elements lingering in the shadows. Republican candidates weaseling around for TP support isn't the same as the GOP controlling the TP. Just as the Democratic candidates are thinking it'd be a good thing to tap into the OWS support doesn't make them the puppetmasters. Koch bros. vs. Soros. Big Business vs. Big Labor. It goes on and on.

I'm not even remotely religious, but that whole dudes with glasshouses and rock throwing thing comes to mind (I think that was Bible related?). There are unsavory sides to both groups that neither wants to or should be defined by.

tbomachines · #56 10-19-2011, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LarryBible

Okay, I'm hungry. I can't get a job that is at the minimum wage? Okay, I'll just set here and die of starvation because I wouldn't want to mow that yard for less than the minimum wage. Is this a picture of laziness, or what?

There were no formal jobs for me when I was a kid, but I managed to get by with NO handouts. I mowed yards, hauled hay and these efforts led to something better. You show people you're not afraid of work and you will get work.

It is quite unfortunate, but as our country moves rapidly towards socialism, people learn that they will get a hand out, thus they LEARN that they don't HAVE to work. They can sit on their A$$ until someone comes along and feeds them.

Very sad.

Show me a kid or anyone that is down on their luck and is out mowing a yard or hauling hay to try to eat, and I'll show you someone that I and many others want to help.

Conversely show me someone sitting on their A$$ asking for a handout and is apparantly healthy enough to work and I will walk right by that person with no bad conscience at all.

Times are tough! I got it! Tough times call for tough measures.

BTW, this has nothing to do with politics. It has to do with effort, determination and taking responsibility for ones own life rather than EXPECT someone else to take care of you because you're too damn lazy to do it yourself.

If times are hard you have to sell the fancy car. If you have a ragged car, you might even have to sell it. It is NO ONE's responsibility except ones SELF to care for ones SELF!

You just don't get it and you never will, considering you ignore the main points of my posts. Also -- put succinctly, you have demonstrated that you seem to have no concept of what it is like living in a city with socioeconomic disparity.

tbomachines · #57 10-19-2011, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SwampYankee

Actually I tend to agree with a lot of the original T.E.A. Party message, which was get the financial situation in order and that was pretty much it. Unfortunately a few random racist @$$hats and too many establishment Republicans have weaseled in (with hopes of garnering TP support) and have become the "face" of it and the message has been co opted.

My only real point was the Tea Party isn't a racist group just like OWS isn't an anti-Semitic gathering even though there may be some @$$hat elements lingering in the shadows. Republican candidates weaseling around for TP support isn't the same as the GOP controlling the TP. Just as the Democratic candidates are thinking it'd be a good thing to tap into the OWS support doesn't make them the puppetmasters. Koch bros. vs. Soros. Big Business vs. Big Labor. It goes on and on.

I'm not even remotely religious, but that whole dudes with glasshouses and rock throwing thing comes to mind (I think that was Bible related?). There are unsavory sides to both groups that neither wants to or should be defined by.

I agree with this - I am glad the TP has raised awareness that we as citizens are pissed off at the petty politics involved! Unfortunately I don't think it has done much positive. I am also not so optimistic about the OWS demonstrations, they would have been MUCH more beneficial if organized. Each side definitely has a few bad apples.

elchivito · #58 10-19-2011, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LarryBible

The lazy kids on Wall Street...

MTUpower · #59 10-19-2011, 05:06 PM

I agree with Larry B on the work hard, work smart and eventually you will come out fine thinking. I also agree with JR (gasp!) that the big banks have screwed people and should not have gotten money. I tend to think more and more people think that businesses and government will take care of them, and they do not have to understand the futurity of their actions. I watched a show the other day and the guy was asked what his degree was in and he answered to the effect of "religious movements of society". Here I am thinking WTF? What kind of job do you expect to get with that? How the hell are you expecting to pay your student loans with a degree like that? My father told me to do what you love and the money will follow, but you'd better not love to shoot the $hit. I believe in today's world there are some degrees which are not economically feasible and there is little chance of economic prosperity with a education like that. Now these kids are thinking "I've got a college degree and was told if I get one I'll make 1.2 million more over my lifetime than if I did not have one". But they don't have a job 'cause when times are hard no one is gonna hire a person with a nonsense degree.

JollyRoger · #60 10-19-2011, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LarryBible

Tell me! Just how did the banks take any money from anyone? They were GIVEN the money by the Bozo politicians, all of them, in DC. Go protest in DC.

If I remember correctly, they were given money at the request of George Bush's Treasury Secretary, Hank Paulson. Some trillion or so. He was not a politician, he was the former chairman of Goldman Sachs, one of the recipients of billions of dollars, and he told all those politicians that if they didn't get the money, the US was looking at 30% unemployment. Now, how exactly is it that the supposed anti-socialist GOP, the party that socialized trillions of dollars of losses incurred by Goldman and the rest, is now claiming the rest of us, who are the victims of this fiscal disaster, need to pull ourselves up by their poverty-stricken boot straps, while their banking buddies who finance their campaigns, get free public money? Why is it that we are to blame? What I see is an economy wrecked by over-speculation by these banks, who used our own money to gamble with, resulted in the current economic wreckage. Yet those who got ruined by them, are, in your opinion, to blame? How does all that work? And how exactly are these banks atoning for wrecking the economy? How have they helped those they put out of work? Or those they put out of their homes? How are they paying us all back for the mess they made?