What spin should be put on this? - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

cmbdiesel · #16 02-13-2012, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTUpower

Did you read the report?

"Few have any idea they are visiting a country of 330,000 Muslims with no religious freedom, where women can be flogged for extramarital sex and consuming alcohol is illegal for locals.

Islam is the official religion of the Maldives and open practice of any other religion is forbidden and liable to prosecution."

So flogging women for extramarital sex and no open practice of anything but Islam is normal in the Maldives. It's a societal norm to them. If you take those folks where that's a societal norm and transport them to a different society they are then extreme.

What you call the flogging of women for extramarital sex? Normal or extreme? For the western world it's labelled extreme and I'm wondering how people can spin it so that you can then not call it extreme. It appears you (elchivito and others) cannot call it extreme because it would validate the stupidity of the action and make Muslims look bad and you don't want that to happen. Instead you try to make fun of the question- how childish.

It is a poorly written story. One is left to interpret what the country is really all about. Can't be all fundamentalists, or it wouldn't be a favorite vacation spot for the uber wealthy.

Thereafter, the country practised a mostly liberal form of the religion, but more fundamentalist interpretations have spread with the arrival of money and ultra-conservative Salafist preachers from the Middle East.
In 2007, following a bombing that wounded a dozen foreign tourists, the former president Maumoon Abdul Gayoom banned head-to-toe coverings for women as a sign of his intent to battle conservative Islamic thinking.

from the same article...

so which is it? liberal form or fundamental? seems like maybe there is an ongoing switch likely bankrolled by the hard line terrorist sect.

MTI · #17 02-13-2012, 04:37 PM

The US commits torture as part of national security policy and contracts with other nations to torture for us.

The US still has the death penalty, which can also apply to minors.

I guess that's the norm for us. So are all Americans supporters of these things?

MTUpower · #18 02-13-2012, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTI

The US commits torture as part of national security policy and contracts with other nations to torture for us.

The US still has the death penalty, which can also apply to minors.

I guess that's the norm for us. So are all Americans supporters of these things?

Did some lawyer or politician fool the american people and so we voted for people who made those laws up or at some time did we as a people condone those acts? It's a moral argument which has great support on both sides. Are you suggesting that there is NO support for these acts described in the Maldives? You think there is no support for flogging women when they have extramarital sex? No support for the ban on alcohol? No support for the ban on other religions?

MTUpower · #19 02-13-2012, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmbdiesel

It is a poorly written story. One is left to interpret what the country is really all about. Can't be all fundamentalists, or it wouldn't be a favorite vacation spot for the uber wealthy.

and you suggest my statement was ignorant? Do you know or have any experience in marine tourism or tourism at all?

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmbdiesel

Thereafter, the country practised a mostly liberal form of the religion, but more fundamentalist interpretations have spread with the arrival of money and ultra-conservative Salafist preachers from the Middle East.
In 2007, following a bombing that wounded a dozen foreign tourists, the former president Maumoon Abdul Gayoom banned head-to-toe coverings for women as a sign of his intent to battle conservative Islamic thinking.

from the same article...

so which is it? liberal form or fundamental? seems like maybe there is an ongoing switch likely bankrolled by the hard line terrorist sect.

Can you follow a story line? The country was more liberal then money and extreme (aka ultra conservative) preachers came. When they got violent the president wanted to slow down the march to super extreme. If you need assistance in reading comprehension there are plenty of avenues to get help.

cmbdiesel · #20 02-13-2012, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTUpower

and you suggest my statement was ignorant? Do you know or have any experience in marine tourism or tourism at all?
Can you follow a story line? The country was more liberal then money and extreme (aka ultra conservative) preachers came. When they got violent the president wanted to slow down the march to super extreme. If you need assistance in reading comprehension there are plenty of avenues to get help.

did I make that suggestion?? would I have restricted it to just your statement??

I can follow a story line, I was laying it out so you would be able to follow along... my bad

The whole thread is another troll by you in your never ending muslim bashing...

Maybe as you progress with your "avenues", you will eventually be able to move up from yahoo news stories...

aklim · #21 02-13-2012, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulC

Given the substantial number of Muslims in this world, I would greatly prefer to attribute this violence to Muslim extremists than Muslim centrists, wouldn't you?

I would prefer that too but I would also prefer a billion dollars be in my bank account. Doesn't make it happen, does it?

aklim · #22 02-13-2012, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTI

The US commits torture as part of national security policy and contracts with other nations to torture for us.

The US still has the death penalty, which can also apply to minors.

I guess that's the norm for us. So are all Americans supporters of these things?

Yes and no. Officially, probably not. But there again, govts say much, believe in few and do even fewer.

MTI · #23 02-13-2012, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTUpower

Did some lawyer or politician fool the american people and so we voted for people who made those laws up or at some time did we as a people condone those acts? It's a moral argument which has great support on both sides. Are you suggesting that there is NO support for these acts described in the Maldives? You think there is no support for flogging women when they have extramarital sex? No support for the ban on alcohol? No support for the ban on other religions?

There used to be support for a lot of "bad things" in the US, wouldn't you agree? We've had witchhunts before we became a nation, and since, with devastating effects closer in time to the present and under the guise of patriotism. We've also had our brushes with genocide, concentration camps and institutional mistreatment of various ethnic, religious and social minorities. We banned alcohol too, remember?

Likewise, while not condoning brutalism, is it realistic to presume that all nations should live up to western standards when poverty, lack of education, corruption and violence surrounds their daily existence?

PaulC · #24 02-13-2012, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

I would prefer that too but I would also prefer a billion dollars be in my bank account. Doesn't make it happen, does it?

Depends on how close you currently are to that billion-dollar total...

MTUpower · #25 02-13-2012, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTI

There used to be support for a lot of "bad things" in the US, wouldn't you agree? We've had witchhunts before we became a nation, and since, with devastating effects closer in time to the present and under the guise of patriotism. We've also had our brushes with genocide, concentration camps and institutional mistreatment of various ethnic, religious and social minorities. We banned alcohol too, remember?

Likewise, while not condoning brutalism, is it realistic to presume that all nations should live up to western standards when poverty, lack of education, corruption and violence surrounds their daily existence?

I do remember and we have changed for the better in many ways. Those that still believe in those things we have moved on from are now viewed as extremists. Are KKK members extreme or mainstream? Are religious folks (of any faith) who suggest punishing women for extramarital sex extremists or main stream? Obviously the Maldives condone such activities. If you took the average Muslim (or any citizen/member of any religion)out of the Maldives would they still view such actions as normal? Yes they would for some time until they came to have a new normal. That's exactly the case of the Canadian Muslims who killed their daughters for "becoming westernized". It was not extreme to them to punish their women - it was normal. So normal in fact they felt they had to do it. To us they were extreme- and to them it was normal. Is that hard to understand? Many Muslims think violence in the name of Islam is normal.

tbomachines · #26 02-13-2012, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTUpower

Did you read the report?

"Few have any idea they are visiting a country of 330,000 Muslims with no religious freedom, where women can be flogged for extramarital sex and consuming alcohol is illegal for locals.

Islam is the official religion of the Maldives and open practice of any other religion is forbidden and liable to prosecution."

So flogging women for extramarital sex and no open practice of anything but Islam is normal in the Maldives. It's a societal norm to them. If you take those folks where that's a societal norm and transport them to a different society they are then extreme.

What you call the flogging of women for extramarital sex? Normal or extreme? For the western world it's labelled extreme and I'm wondering how people can spin it so that you can then not call it extreme. It appears you (elchivito and others) cannot call it extreme because it would validate the stupidity of the action and make Muslims look bad and you don't want that to happen. Instead you try to make fun of the question- how childish.

Missing the forest for the trees. I would love to see you try and prove that the majority of a billion+ Muslims support the actions. For that matter, why not define "extreme" for us. Worshiping a being with no factual evidence seems "extreme" to me yet billions of humans do it daily.
In terms of context, The Maldives is an unstable country both politically and socially which of course breeds violence. I don't even see the point of this thread...some individuals belonging to a fundamentalist religious group decided to commit a terrible crime. Now there's something you never heard before. Only a complete ignoramus would equate the actions of a few to the actions of many in such a regard. Should I start citing hate crime statistics here in the U.S. and start painting YOU with the same brush?

chilcutt · #27 02-13-2012, 07:34 PM

^^MTU..can you tell us what country has the largest Muslim population?

Or for that matter, perhaps your only ally Aklim would care to answer that question.

Even Larry Bible-who sometimes is portrayed as being intolerant- disagree's with you.

PaulC · #28 02-13-2012, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tbomachines

Missing the forest for the trees. I would love to see you try and prove that the majority of a billion+ Muslims support the actions. For that matter, why not define "extreme" for us. Worshiping a being with no factual evidence seems "extreme" to me yet billions of humans do it daily.
In terms of context, The Maldives is an unstable country both politically and socially which of course breeds violence. I don't even see the point of this thread...some individuals belonging to a fundamentalist religious group decided to commit a terrible crime. Now there's something you never heard before. Only a complete ignoramus would equate the actions of a few to the actions of many in such a regard. Should I start citing hate crime statistics here in the U.S. and start painting YOU with the same brush?

Ow.

tbomachines · #29 02-13-2012, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulC

Ow.

Yeah I guess its a bit harsh and jumpy in hindsight but not necessarily incorrect. Working in social science has taught me that people will always dig up examples to feed their stereotypes no matter how insular or isolated they may be--why I cited hate crime statistics as an example. Hate crimes are indicative of one (or several) person's violent actions but not representative of a whole group. Its a lot more evident when you are in the "group" whether its your country, your religion, your race, etc. but eschew and detest the action.

aklim · #30 02-13-2012, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tbomachines

Missing the forest for the trees. I would love to see you try and prove that the majority of a billion+ Muslims support the actions.

By support do you only count active support? If so you can say there are only a few Palestinians that are involved in suicide bombs in Israel. If by support you count tacit support, I would suspect the number is much larger. As I have said before, when you show me general condemnation of the commandeering of the religion by the few extremists, I would agree that your statement holds water.